Does the M4-P viewfinder sufer from flare?

[Tuolumne]

I was using my M4-P in a very dark theater-bar with randomly placed spotlights last night. The flare in the viewfinder from the spotlights made focusing all but impossible. I didn't think the M4-P suffered from this problem. I've only heard about flare with respect to the M6. Does the M4-P have the same viewfinder flare problems as the M6? Can the viewfinder be fixed to avoid this problem, as the M6?

/T

 

[Roger Hicks]

I've had exactly the same problem, and indeed, I used to switch to my M2s when shooting folk clubs.

The only fix I have heard of is to have the MP finder installed (I believe this can be done).

Cheers,

R.

 

[Bill Blackwell]

The "right-or-replace" finder started with the M4-2. To save on production cost, about half-way into the M4-2 run the flair resistant condenser in the finder was removed. This same condenserless finder was produced for the M4-P and the M6/M6TTL.

This flair-resistant condenser was put back in 2003 with the introduction of the MP. This "MP condenser" can be installed in any of the right-or-replace finders for less than $200 by DAG or Sherry K. - more if Leica does it.

 

[payasam]

It was my impression that one of the cost reducing measures in the M2 made its finder flare a little, not a problem with the more complicated M3 finder.

 

[ferider]

Next time, turn the camera around. Not kidding.

 

[maddoc]

Sometimes the M4-P VF flares (and so do all the following M Leicas) but slightly re-positioning of the camera helps (as Roland said). The upgrade should reduce flare a lot but for ~ 200 US$ ...

 

[Bill Blackwell]

It was my impression that one of the cost reducing measures in the M2 made its finder flare a little, not a problem with the more complicated M3 finder.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean. AFAIK, the M2 finder never cost any less to produce than the M3 finder.

The M3 finder was completely flair free, but would only facilitate 50mm framelines. When Leica decided to produce the M2, it was also decided the finder needed to be redesigned so 35mm framelines could be used.

The M2 was indeed designed to be a "prosumer" M3 at a lower cost (about 15% less). The new finder was not flair-free, but substantially flair resistant. The M2 cost-cutting measures included an external frame-counter (eliminating all of the counter mechanism under the topcover) and an optional self-timer (initially there was no self-timer option at all). But by the time the M2-R was being rolled out (well into the M4 run) the M2 didn't cost any less to produce.

This M2 finder (at least the basic design) has been in every M camera since.

 

[payasam]

The M2 finder is an altogether different design from the M3 finder. The M2 body cost less, and it is probable that some of the saving came from the redesigned finder.

We are talking of flare here. I do not know if flair is an optical phenomenon.

 

[Joop van Heijgen]

I never had special 'flare problems' with my M4-P! Also comparing with my Wetzlar M4 there are no big differences with it. My M4-P is one of the first series built in 1980 and have an excellent viewfinder!

From a centain viewpoint spotlight can affect the bright viewfinder negatively with all types of M cameras!

 

[Tuolumne]

It is interesting to note that my R-D1, which I took most of my pictures with in the club, had no flare problems at all!

/T

 

[sleepyhead]

Here's a Top Tip:

Take a piece of Scotch Tape (the frosted type), and place it over the frameline illumination window (middle, jaggy window) of the rangefinder. It won't completely remove the flare, and it will dim things a bit, but it's cheap!

 

[JNewell]

It was my impression that one of the cost reducing measures in the M2 made its finder flare a little, not a problem with the more complicated M3 finder.

Correct, my pre-M4-2 bodies and my "updated" M6 will flare slightly under the right conditions. The M4-2/M4-P/M6 finders w/o the missing condenser will flare considerably more if the eye is not perfectly aligned. The M3 is a completely different design and does not IME flare.

If you are - or, let me say it this way - if I am - careful about eye alignment, flare is very, very seldom an issue at all. I paid to upgrade one of my M6 bodies but not the other.

There may be variations from body to body. The "worst" flaring finder I have owned was in an M4-P, but its design is the same as the four M6es I've owned/own.

 

[Pablito]

I paid to upgrade one of my M6 bodies but not the other.
.

me too and the upgraded finder flares LESS but it still can flare (though this was/is rarely a problem. Beside the flare issue, the upgrded finder is better but only slightly. Under most situations you can't tell the difference, it's only in very low light that the upgraded finder is clearly brighter; makes for easier focusing.

 

[itf]

I can't compare, I've only got an M4-2 and it flares every now and then. I don't know when exactly they were supposed to have changes the finder in the m4-2, but it must've been before half way through because mine was made before halfway through (well, maybe mine has still got the condenser and does flare less, I don't know).

When mine flares I just put a finder over the illumination window while I focus.

 

[maddoc]

I just remember that my first M4-P (which I had sold), flared less compared with my actual M4-P before it went to an overhaul by Leica. It might be that internal haze (from lubricants and glues), contributes to finder flare by scattering light.

 

[Joop van Heijgen]

I just remember that my first M4-P (which I had sold), flared less compared with my actual M4-P before it went to an overhaul by Leica. It might be that internal haze (from lubricants and glues), contributes to finder flare by scattering light.

After cleaning the viewfinder you will see more finder 'flare' than before!

After some time, by using the camera, more 'micro-dust' in the finder will decrease the 'flare problem '.🙂

 

[historicist]

I seem to remember that my M4-P viewfinder flared a bit more than my M4 does, not a big problem, but annoying when it happens.

 

[Harry Lime]

It was my impression that one of the cost reducing measures in the M2 made its finder flare a little, not a problem with the more complicated M3 finder.

I had a long talk with Don of DAG about this and although the M3 RF is different than all other M bodies, the M2 RF is about as good as they come.

The trouble started with the M4-2 and wasn't rectified until the MP/M7.

As has been mentioned earlier you can have the condenser added by Sherry or Don. Sherry upgraded my M6ttl and to be honest it has the brightest RF of any of my bodies. It's even brighter than my early M7 (also upgraded)

 

[Harry Lime]

The M2 finder is an altogether different design from the M3 finder. The M2 body cost less, and it is probable that some of the saving came from the redesigned finder.

We are talking of flare here. I do not know if flair is an optical phenomenon.

Yes, the M3 finder is different than all other units, but in some areas the M2 RF is more complex than what's in the M4 and later cameras. For one thing the frameline mask is a super thin piece of frosted glass, sandwiched between two sheets of paper thin etched metal. Later on it was just metal. Very complex and expensive to make. Don G. rated the M2 finder very, very highly.

 

[payasam]

Harry, finder flare was never a problem with the M3 I had for 17 years, and it has not so far been a problem with the M2 I now have. However, while some users have complained of flare in the M2 finder, I haven't heard anyone speaking of flare in the M3 finder. I'd say the difference is at most marginal, though I don't have the details which you will have got from DAG.