rlouzan
Well-known
Hi Tom,
Have you ever heard of ELCAN supplying the Canadian Forces with M4/M4-2 cameras? I remember someone selling a M4/M4-2 camera body, Leica enlarger equipment + a 90mm f1 (all with CF designations) in an old Shutterbug ad.
Regards,
Robert
---------------------------------------------------------------
FS: Hand made camera straps
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost-classifieds/showproduct.php/product/22053/cat/6
---------------------------------------------------------------
Have you ever heard of ELCAN supplying the Canadian Forces with M4/M4-2 cameras? I remember someone selling a M4/M4-2 camera body, Leica enlarger equipment + a 90mm f1 (all with CF designations) in an old Shutterbug ad.
Regards,
Robert
---------------------------------------------------------------
FS: Hand made camera straps
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost-classifieds/showproduct.php/product/22053/cat/6
---------------------------------------------------------------
rolleistef
Well-known
http://www.luciolepri.it/lc2/marcocavina/articoli_fotografici/leitz_elcan_90/00_pag.htm
Here it is. The page reads :
Every photographer knows the Noctilux, however they perhaps don't know of the existence of its big brother, a 90mm medium-tele with the same aperture that wasn't on sale as it was of the numerous purchase of the US navy for Leitz Canada. The front lens doesn't read "Noctilux" but more simply ELCAN, acronym of "ernst leitz canada", used as a general name for military optical equipment. The lens has got two features, not talking of its extraordinary speed, which are the lack of a RF coupling, despite being meant to be used on a M, indeed the rear element was so big for the bayonet that there physically wasn't enough space for such device ; and the lens doesn't have a focusing helicoïd. The only setting of this monstrous 1.8kg lens (3 1/2lbs) was the diaphragm, as the lens was focused thanks to three rings, respectively for 50 , 100m (150 and 300ft) and infinity. It was a strange choice this of a metrical scale, and there wasn't much to joke about at 50m at f:1, but who knows...
The other feature was this of its design, projected as a C164 formula ; it was obviously the maximum of what you could get with a 8-element double gauss. Curiously enough, it shares with the canon 85/1.2 and the Zeiss 85/1.2 not only the focal length and the extreme aperture, but also the same geometricol complexity and the disposition of the lenses ; of course there aren't many solutions when projecting a lens of that kind.
The official documentation of the internal use journal of the US Navy describes the device as an "electro optical night photography", something that makes me think about a vision intensificator or something linked with an IR projector. In any case the 90mm Elcan was always photographed attached with a M body ; but I guess that under the pompous definition, is only hiding something used with a flash or continuous lighting, using the enormous aperture to widen the range of use.
Hope that helps!
Cheers,
Here it is. The page reads :
Every photographer knows the Noctilux, however they perhaps don't know of the existence of its big brother, a 90mm medium-tele with the same aperture that wasn't on sale as it was of the numerous purchase of the US navy for Leitz Canada. The front lens doesn't read "Noctilux" but more simply ELCAN, acronym of "ernst leitz canada", used as a general name for military optical equipment. The lens has got two features, not talking of its extraordinary speed, which are the lack of a RF coupling, despite being meant to be used on a M, indeed the rear element was so big for the bayonet that there physically wasn't enough space for such device ; and the lens doesn't have a focusing helicoïd. The only setting of this monstrous 1.8kg lens (3 1/2lbs) was the diaphragm, as the lens was focused thanks to three rings, respectively for 50 , 100m (150 and 300ft) and infinity. It was a strange choice this of a metrical scale, and there wasn't much to joke about at 50m at f:1, but who knows...
The other feature was this of its design, projected as a C164 formula ; it was obviously the maximum of what you could get with a 8-element double gauss. Curiously enough, it shares with the canon 85/1.2 and the Zeiss 85/1.2 not only the focal length and the extreme aperture, but also the same geometricol complexity and the disposition of the lenses ; of course there aren't many solutions when projecting a lens of that kind.
The official documentation of the internal use journal of the US Navy describes the device as an "electro optical night photography", something that makes me think about a vision intensificator or something linked with an IR projector. In any case the 90mm Elcan was always photographed attached with a M body ; but I guess that under the pompous definition, is only hiding something used with a flash or continuous lighting, using the enormous aperture to widen the range of use.
Hope that helps!
Cheers,
Tom A
RFF Sponsor
First of all, sorry for the delay in getting, but I got laid low with a 4 day pneumonia and some uncomfortable time in the hospital!
Specific supplies to the Canadian forces not well documented. Some M3's and M4's with Maple Leafs and RCAF (Royal Canadian Air Force). I have not seen any M4-2's with military specs. I am sure that they did supply stuff, but little is known and the current owners of the Midland plant are not very communicative about it. Rayethon is mainly a contractor to the US Military anyway.
ELCAN made a bewildering amount of stuff, gunsights,aerial cameras, special optics for M and R cameras. The most famous one for the M are probably the 66mm f2.0 - made for use with SO 115 (Tech Pan film) and popular with US dignitaries on the May parade podium in Moscow (looked like a slightly oversized 50 - but could handle extreme enlargements of paraded missiles.
The 90f1 supposedly was used for aerial surveillance and by keeping a chopper at a steady altitude (low) and shooting straight down, the f1 was enough. It was evidently used with a flash too ( needed from that height).
They also made optics for spectral surveillance. I have seen a cluster of lenses, all 280 mm f2.8's, bolted to a plate 10x10" (Wild Aerial?)where one lens had a red element, one had a "normal" and the third one was UV sensitive. The 4th one had a reseau plate ( engraved with lines that could be used to measure distances and size of objects). It was a massive assembly - 20-25kg!
They also used to make ELCAN ultra high resolution enlargers for printing on sheets of Tech Pan. Several versions exists. I have one, 80 kg version of the Focomat IIc. A stack of 6 hand ground aspherical condensors and it barely covers 24x36 mm. The resolution is a staggering 275 lines/mm (the best conventional enlarging systems can do about 60 lines! There was three lenses available, a 25mm f4.0, a 50mm f2.0 and a 75mm f2.0. Unfortunately mine came without lenses ( the 75 evidently was a prototype and I have never sen it). The 50 was a variant of the DR Summicron. Massive piece and rather useless, unless you want grain that is "etched" on the paper. It is also a Point Source - so you have to expose wide-open. Supposedly it was designed to be used with the aforementioned 66f2 and also to produce surveillance images shot with the 180f3.4 Apo-Telyt. In total there were maybe 12-15 made (mine is #4)
The one lens that always intriqued me was the 180f3.4 Apo Telyt in M-mount ( 1/2 dozen prototypes made). It had 135f2.8 type "goggles" attached to it and would focus from 15-18 ft to infinity. The 180f3.4 is not a close focus lens - but @ f3.4 and at infinity - it is still one of the best medium telephoto lenses made.
ELCAN also made 135f2.8 and 60f2 and a 30f2 that was used on aerial cameras using perforated 70mm film. Back focus on the 60 and 30 is to short for using in a M though (I tried). The 135f2.8 worked fine on a Baby Speed Graphic though.
As anything military - everything is classified - even if the stuff is sold on the surplus market. Weird - but it probably saves them from a lot of nutty phonecalls!
I did have a 90f1 - but it was a lens used for taking pictures of CRT screens. I did adapt it to an M, fixed focus (773mm or something) - mostly Bokeh - but kind of nice such.
Somewhere on our Flickr site are a couple of samples. I will try to find them and put up the tags for it.
Ah, found the tags. Go to our Flickr stream (see below) and use the tags C 385 2001 and C 386 2001 and it should take you there.
Specific supplies to the Canadian forces not well documented. Some M3's and M4's with Maple Leafs and RCAF (Royal Canadian Air Force). I have not seen any M4-2's with military specs. I am sure that they did supply stuff, but little is known and the current owners of the Midland plant are not very communicative about it. Rayethon is mainly a contractor to the US Military anyway.
ELCAN made a bewildering amount of stuff, gunsights,aerial cameras, special optics for M and R cameras. The most famous one for the M are probably the 66mm f2.0 - made for use with SO 115 (Tech Pan film) and popular with US dignitaries on the May parade podium in Moscow (looked like a slightly oversized 50 - but could handle extreme enlargements of paraded missiles.
The 90f1 supposedly was used for aerial surveillance and by keeping a chopper at a steady altitude (low) and shooting straight down, the f1 was enough. It was evidently used with a flash too ( needed from that height).
They also made optics for spectral surveillance. I have seen a cluster of lenses, all 280 mm f2.8's, bolted to a plate 10x10" (Wild Aerial?)where one lens had a red element, one had a "normal" and the third one was UV sensitive. The 4th one had a reseau plate ( engraved with lines that could be used to measure distances and size of objects). It was a massive assembly - 20-25kg!
They also used to make ELCAN ultra high resolution enlargers for printing on sheets of Tech Pan. Several versions exists. I have one, 80 kg version of the Focomat IIc. A stack of 6 hand ground aspherical condensors and it barely covers 24x36 mm. The resolution is a staggering 275 lines/mm (the best conventional enlarging systems can do about 60 lines! There was three lenses available, a 25mm f4.0, a 50mm f2.0 and a 75mm f2.0. Unfortunately mine came without lenses ( the 75 evidently was a prototype and I have never sen it). The 50 was a variant of the DR Summicron. Massive piece and rather useless, unless you want grain that is "etched" on the paper. It is also a Point Source - so you have to expose wide-open. Supposedly it was designed to be used with the aforementioned 66f2 and also to produce surveillance images shot with the 180f3.4 Apo-Telyt. In total there were maybe 12-15 made (mine is #4)
The one lens that always intriqued me was the 180f3.4 Apo Telyt in M-mount ( 1/2 dozen prototypes made). It had 135f2.8 type "goggles" attached to it and would focus from 15-18 ft to infinity. The 180f3.4 is not a close focus lens - but @ f3.4 and at infinity - it is still one of the best medium telephoto lenses made.
ELCAN also made 135f2.8 and 60f2 and a 30f2 that was used on aerial cameras using perforated 70mm film. Back focus on the 60 and 30 is to short for using in a M though (I tried). The 135f2.8 worked fine on a Baby Speed Graphic though.
As anything military - everything is classified - even if the stuff is sold on the surplus market. Weird - but it probably saves them from a lot of nutty phonecalls!
I did have a 90f1 - but it was a lens used for taking pictures of CRT screens. I did adapt it to an M, fixed focus (773mm or something) - mostly Bokeh - but kind of nice such.
Somewhere on our Flickr site are a couple of samples. I will try to find them and put up the tags for it.
Ah, found the tags. Go to our Flickr stream (see below) and use the tags C 385 2001 and C 386 2001 and it should take you there.
Last edited:
rlouzan
Well-known
raid
Dad Photographer
I have a large ELCAN tele lens that I have not figured out, so I gave it to the Physics Department. It weight at least 20lb.
rlouzan
Well-known
Tom,
[SIZE=-1]Get well soon! This place isn't the same when you're not around
.[/SIZE]
Robert
-----------------------------------------------
FS: Hand Made Camera Straps
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/pho...uct/22168/cat/12/limit/recent/date/1248809875
------------------------------------------------------------------
[SIZE=-1]Get well soon! This place isn't the same when you're not around
.[/SIZE]Robert
-----------------------------------------------
FS: Hand Made Camera Straps
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/pho...uct/22168/cat/12/limit/recent/date/1248809875
------------------------------------------------------------------
rlouzan
Well-known
Tom A
RFF Sponsor
Ok, I am back in action - a bit weak from massive doses of antibiotics and hospital food! Raid. do you have the FL and spec's of the ELCAN lens? Somehow they used to make all the military stuff HEAVY - but they could of course order some poor grunt to carry it!
It was often a case of overkill. The control panel for my enlarger is a case in point. It contains enough solder to use as a ballast. Huge knobs to control exposure - goes from 0,1 sec to 120 sec. Also a equal sized knob to control shutter delay (it is a point source - so you need a shutter to compensate for bulb warm-up and cool down). I still haven't found a neg over exposed to the point that I would need 120 sec though. Most exposures are in the 0.9 -1.1 sec (fiber paper and #3 filter).
Of course, as with most all "vintage electronic - the control panel has died and no schematics exists (they were hand built by the guy who started Uni Blitz controls in Rochester, N.Y). Having owned multiple british bikes and cars - I applied the same solution as with those. Run a wire around the offending part - and it kind of works. Toying with the idea of making a LED source instead as that would solve the warm-up/cool down problem.
It was often a case of overkill. The control panel for my enlarger is a case in point. It contains enough solder to use as a ballast. Huge knobs to control exposure - goes from 0,1 sec to 120 sec. Also a equal sized knob to control shutter delay (it is a point source - so you need a shutter to compensate for bulb warm-up and cool down). I still haven't found a neg over exposed to the point that I would need 120 sec though. Most exposures are in the 0.9 -1.1 sec (fiber paper and #3 filter).
Of course, as with most all "vintage electronic - the control panel has died and no schematics exists (they were hand built by the guy who started Uni Blitz controls in Rochester, N.Y). Having owned multiple british bikes and cars - I applied the same solution as with those. Run a wire around the offending part - and it kind of works. Toying with the idea of making a LED source instead as that would solve the warm-up/cool down problem.