ELCAN replica lens posts

[Archlich]

Dug around a bit. Seems that some of Mr. Zhou's friends have received optical blocks and prototypes later last year, others had managed to place a deposit, but there's few news beyond that.

Some more prototypes and sample photos:

https://bit.ly/3juHeB6 (Elcan optical block with a Summicron relica barrel)
https://bit.ly/3qDtzJv (prototype barrel)
https://bit.ly/3w8WC8W (supposedly shot with a GFX-50R)

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People asked for LLL's "business model" and by the look of it, there is barely any. They're still mostly just a hobby club active in a WeChat group centered around Mr. Zhou's team and some friends. Marketing in China with words of mouth/social media only, while in Japan it's up to Shoten Kobo, their distributor.

They're also contemplating replicas for:

Zeiss Hologon 15mm f/8
Leica Noctilux 50mm f/1.2（11820）
Leica Summilux 35mm f/1.4 AA（11873）
Dallmeyer Super-Six 3-inch f/1.9
Kern Macro-Switar 50mm f/1.9

Some optical blocks have been made but none is on track to go into production. They're also working on a Canon VI-ish M-mount camera. Still, concept only.

I doubt anyone will volunteer to go through the trouble or, fiasco, to make them directly available here on RFF again. Maybe they'll eventually find a legit distributor in the western world like they did in Japan.

 

[Platinum RF]

...... the second element used a glass of exclusive Leitz formulation (672460), ......."

How does LLL know the Leitz glass compositions?
It was designed as a simplified lens for rough environment use.

 

[f.hayek]

People asked for LLL's "business model" and by the look of it, there is barely any. They're still mostly just a hobby club active in a WeChat group centered around Mr. Zhou's team and some friends. Marketing in China with words of mouth/social media only, while in Japan it's up to Shoten Kobo, their distributor.

There is no “Mr Zhou”!
He appears by different names on different sites. “Kevin” has vaporized so you can’t ask him. The speculation about a “hobby club” was Kevin’s marketing spiel, as is likely the existence of a mysterious Mr Zhou. He sounds like a minor Bond villain.

There is no independent verification on any of these purported facts, just whatever Kevin wrote here and what’s repeated ever since.

 

[Archlich]

There is no “Mr Zhou”!
He appears by different names on different sites. “Kevin” has vaporized so you can’t ask him. The speculation about a “hobby club” was Kevin’s marketing spiel, as is likely the existence of a mysterious Mr Zhou. He sounds like a minor Bond villain.

There is no independent verification on any of these purported facts, just whatever Kevin wrote here and what’s repeated ever since.

I'm in that WeChat group.

 

[raid]

Is the only way to get such a lens to pre-order it for $1300+ and then hope for a delivery one day (one year) and that the lens really passed critical QC checks at LLL?
Is your money this cheap? 🙂 [it is a joke!]
It really is a risky deal. It is tempting to get a "rare" lens's replica, but at what cost?

 

[raid]

The ELCAN 50mm F2 M Replica by LLL

The ELCAN 50mm F2 M Replica by LLL

Let's move the new discussions on what LLL may produce to this thread.
Is the ELCAN replica worth it?

Is the only way to get such a lens to pre-order it for $1300+ and then hope for a delivery one day (one year) and that the lens really passed critical QC checks at LLL?
Is your money this cheap? [it is a joke!]
It really is a risky deal. It is tempting to get a "rare" lens's replica, but at what cost?

 

[Archlich]

Is the only way to get such a lens to pre-order it for $1300+ and then hope for a delivery one day (one year) and that the lens really passed critical QC checks at LLL?
Is your money this cheap? 🙂 [it is a joke!]
It really is a risky deal. It is tempting to get a "rare" lens's replica, but at what cost?

We don't really need another 50mm lens, do we?

 

[raid]

Not really. I still love my Zeiss Sonnar 5cm 1.5 and 2.0 versions from the 1930's and 1940's in their different versions. It is hard to beat such lenses for their characteristics.

 

[Phil_F_NM]

I love the fact that "mil-spec quality control" has been attributed to near mystical qualities for what are merely special ordered lenses. Five years of my time in the Navy was spent doing quality control and analysis, and I have to say that the phrase "mil-spec quality control" should be read as "close enough for government work."

There were quite a few 50 ELCAN lenses used in the Navy. I know two former photographer's mates who used the KE-7A kit on board two different ships. Add to that, I helped the photo department LPO at NAS Keflavik catalog 60 years of gear before it was transferred to DRMO, and in there were two KE-7A kits, among several million dollars worth in cameras and lenses. That LPO used a KE-7A as his first rangefinder camera, just for curiosity's sake. The images were fine, but nothing special besides some beautiful photos of the cloudy coast of Iceland and the usual images of sailors drinking coffee, sitting at computers, and going about their day.

Phil Forrest

 

[raid]

I have a feeling that people are happier with posting on the ELCAN in the original thread on the first version 35mm Summicron replica.

No harm done here.

 

[raid]

Old lenses can have a history to tell about, such as Phil went over his experiences in the Navy and the ELCAN lens. I have a Zeiss 5cm 2.0 lens that at some time in the past someone embedded into an Elmar housing (ltm). I was told that based on its serial number, the lens was one of 200 lenses that Germany traded to Sweden in return for iron ore ! A replica of this lens will not have such a story to tell.

 

[raid]

For sale online for a large sum of money.

 

[raid]

Kevin's thread on the lens and camera: https://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2926979

 

[Platinum RF]

We don't really need another 50mm lens, do we?

I don’t need another 50mm, the replica remind me of these guys who sell fake luxury bags on New York City street. I guess the replica is targeting for these buyers. 15mm f8 hologon replica had lots of manufacture issues, lots of failed elements from one glass block. How Zeiss did it, I remember I read somewhere long time ago, Zeiss cut into two pieces then glue together. I hope LHSA give a fair review and disclose any conflict of interest.
Here is the definition of Chinese replica
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanzhai

 

[raid]

I don’t need another 50mm, the replica remind me of these guys who sell fake luxury bags on New York City street. I guess the replica is targeting for these buyers. 15mm f8 hologon replica had lots of manufacture issues, lots of failed elements from one glass block. How Zeiss did it, I remember I read somewhere long time ago, Zeiss cut into two pieces then glue together. I hope LHSA give a fair review and disclose any conflict of interest.
Here is the definition of Chinese replica
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanzhai

When Zeiss designed the Hologon 16mm/8 for the G line after the original 15mm 8 lens, this was not a "replica". Correct? You mean a Chinese made replica.

 

[Ed Schwartzreic]

Both Dr. Mandler and the person I corresponded with who was involved with the project deny any special military aspects to this lens. It was just a cheaper lens to satisfy the contract.

What started me on the project of writing about the ELCAN 50/2 was the possibility of finding the actual military contract for the lens. If anyone here knows about this, or has a copy,that would be very helpful. Neither Raytheon (successor to Leitz Canada), nor Wetzlar have a copy of this.

Ed

 

[raid]

If this is correct, Ed, then the replica is really not worth getting. The first version 8 element Summicron 35mm lens replica was a near copy of an optically high performance lens. If the ELCAN 50/2 was a cheap lens for the military, what would its replica be good for?

 

[Ed Schwartzreic]

Raid, that had always been my default position -- that this lens was made on the cheap and was not so good, as even Dr. Mandler implied in a letter to LHSA. However, here is Dr. Mandler, quite differently, in the patent itself:

"The state of correction of these objectives shows
a remarkable improvement over the state of correction of
comparable prior art objectives… This principle of design may
be employed throughout wide ranges of focal lengths with all
resulting objectives having relatively large apertures…The costs
of manufacture of the invented objectives remain inside the
same amounts as are required for the known triplets, owing to
the employment of most inexpensive glasses. In addition, the
overall length of the invented objectives is shorter by about 15
percent as compared to the triplets".

So, from the images I have seen, there is indeed "a remarkable improvement". I had never known this until Kevin said he was excited about the lens and wished a replica to be made. I still felt dismissive until I saw the images. Then I had cognitive dissonance and had to delve into this further. I wanted to know why some people were enthusiastic users despite the negative aura hovering around the lens historically.

Ed

 

[raid]

This gives good reason to pause and to reflect on this information.
I wish I could use such a replica for a few images and then decide what to do.
How can I get a loaner lens?

 

[Ed Schwartzreic]

The early prototype I should be getting is marked 01-0004, I believe. It is not the final lens -- the barrel is not made of whatever metal the finished product will have.

I could probably loan this lens, after I have done tests. Let's see.

Ed