Leica LTM Elmar questions

Leica M39 screw mount bodies/lenses

jett

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I'm confused on the different elmars,
-Which have 39mm filter threads?
-Is there a difference between the M and LTM versions besides the mount (given the same vintage)?
-Is there a difference in ergonomics? I hear that they are fiddly.
-What is the lens hood, is it easy/difficult to find/use?

-Any size comparisons between this lens, the collapsible Summicron, the rigid Summicron, and the summitar? (visual reference)?

I'm looking for a not too expensive collapsible lens with 39mm filter threads. The reason why I do not like 36mm filter threads is that they sometimes bind to the filter threads and I prefer to standardize all my RF filter threads to 39mm for consistency.

I like speed, I like small, I like ergonomic, and I like inexpensive; however, like most photographic equipment I can't have it all. Right now what I do not prioritize is speed and the elmars might be sufficient for the other critieria.
 
sorry 50mm collapsible.

also how is the size and filter threads on the CV heliars? Should those be considered?
 
I sure like my collapsible Summicron. Mine was $350 seven years ago in BGN condition at KEH. It's a fine example. 1 1/2 stops faster than the Elmar and very light on the camera.
 
I think all 50/2.8 Elmars (LTM and M-mount) have E39 filter threads. Many appreciate the convenience of having a set of Leica lenses that all use E39 filters.

The A36 LTM 50/3.5 Elmar is just incredibly small when collapsed. But the f-stop adjustment is fiddly, and it is behind an A36 filter if used. There are E19 filters for this lens that don't block the aperture lever, but they are very hard to find.

The E39 50mm Elmars move the aperture ring to around the barrel. But this means that they don't collapse nearly as small as the A36 ones.
 
From Sartorius' "Identifying Leica Lenses":

LTM: 50/3.5, made from 1930-1959
Aperture scale 3.5/4.5/6.3/9/12.5/18 up to sn ~610,000, after that 3.5/4/5.6/11/16, and from s/n 701,000 on 3.5 to 22.

Filters A36 then E39, but the book doesn't say when it changed, likely around the time the M version was introduced. I don't know if the E39 version had the M-style aperture ring. Hood: first FISON then FIKUS

LTM 50/2.8, 1957-1962
All used the modern f-stop scale down to f/16 and E39 filters. Hood: ITOOY

M 50/3.5, 1954-1961 (I have a 1954 one, it's quite nice)
All used the modern f-stop scale, but only down to f/16. All E39 filters. Hood: ITOOY/12580 and 12585

M 50/2.8 from 1957-1974 (not the 1995 Elmar-M). F2.8-16, E39, hood: ITOOY/12580 and 12585.
 
Of the lenses you mention I own the Elmar 2.8, the Summitar and the Summicron rigid.

The Elmar and the Summitar as collapsible lenses are smaller than the Cron, of course.

The image quality all these lenses produce is great for my practical use (HP5, TRI-X, even Delta 100, handheld shooting, prints up to 40 x 50 cm).

One thing I don´t like with the collapsibles is the aperture ring. You need two hands to change aperture, as the barrel is turning out of focus otherwise, except when the infinity lock is engaged. That means shooting sometimes is impossible with the eye permanently on the finder. That problem is nonexistent with the rigid Cron.

The rigid Cron also is an incredibly beautiful lense, I´d go for it if I had to choose. But it´s double the price of the others, and it´s harder to find a clean example due to soft coating.

The Elmar 2.8 is just ok. The Summitar would be my last choice.
 
The latest Elmar 'M' is the best of the lot, superior in every respect to the previous versions.

It doesn't suffer the extremes of 'soft wide open but OK stopped down' like earlier Elmar's, it is sharper across the range, the aperture ring is very light, and the focusing is very, very smooth. And despite the steep price rises in other Leica lenses it is still a sleeper, why I don't know because it is a high quality lens.

If however you are after 'character' (like a truly vintage look), then the early Summicron or Summitar are great (although you will need a Summitar thread to E39 adapter). The Summitar is soft wide open, but has a strange swirly bokeh that some people like, others don't. They are a fashionable lens at the moment though, so prices are high. The LTM or M mount Elmar from the fifties is a good lens, but it is very neutral, it doesn't have much character, it is OK for sharpness, it is OK across the board in every respect, but just 'OK'.
 
Hi,

"One thing I don´t like with the collapsibles is the aperture ring. You need two hands to change aperture, as the barrel is turning out of focus otherwise, except when the infinity lock is engaged."

That's what the infinity lock was for. With the focus locked you changed aperture then released the lock and used the RF to focus.

Regards, David
 
Hi David,

that´s only part of the truth. The rigid Cron with it´s independently moving aperture- and focus- rings also features the inf- lock.
Anyway, with the Elmar it´s a fiddly matter....
regards
smp
 
While we are on the subject of Elmars, I've got a set of Walz filters for Elmar that are , oh say 18.5mm. These fit on my older Argus lenses, but I'm curious as to which Elmars they are supposed to fit (my 90/4 is too large).

PF
 
That sounds just about right for the small front element surround of the 50 F3.5 Elmar. Good idea, too as the more common clamp-on 36mm ones have to be taken off to adjust the aperture.

Cheers,
Dez
 
HI,

I've always thought the thread was 19mm and, I've Leitz ones, slim and neat and fatter ones that cover the aperture lever. But the genuine Leitz ones appear from time to time on ebay and are dirt cheap as who wants filters for B&W these days?

Here's one of the fat ones:-

19mm%20Filters%20on%20Leicas%202-L.jpg


Regards, David
 
Unless I'm shooting BW400CN, I always use filters with B&W. But I don't have a collapsible Elmar 50 to see if these fit it. The seller didn't say what size they were, and I was hoping they would fit my 90/4. To my surprize, they do fit an original Argus Cintar. So that is one thing Argus and Leica have in common. The only other thing is the film format they use.

PF
 
HI,

I've always thought the thread was 19mm and, I've Leitz ones, slim and neat and fatter ones that cover the aperture lever. But the genuine Leitz ones appear from time to time on ebay and are dirt cheap as who wants filters for B&W these days?

Here's one of the fat ones:-

19mm%20Filters%20on%20Leicas%202-L.jpg


Regards, David

Hi David,

Actually the fat one looks quite nice. The thinner ones don't cover the aperture lever? My solution was to take a 40.5mm filter I had sitting around, turn it inside out and cut two small pieces of masking tape to line the inside rim of the filter and then slip the filter over the entire head of the lens. It stays on but does block a small piece of the viewfinder.
Just wondering: what do you search for on ebay--Leitz 19mm filter?
 
Hi David,

Actually the fat one looks quite nice. The thinner ones don't cover the aperture lever? My solution was to take a 40.5mm filter I had sitting around, turn it inside out and cut two small pieces of masking tape to line the inside rim of the filter and then slip the filter over the entire head of the lens. It stays on but does block a small piece of the viewfinder.
Just wondering: what do you search for on ebay--Leitz 19mm filter?

Hi,

It looks OK but is a PITA because it blocks the aperture lever. The Leitz ones are really neat and nice. I usually do a search on "Leitz" for things like this but the come under all sorts of names "camera" is a good one, for example...

Regards, David

PS I'll try and remember to do a photo of the proper one on an Elmar for you.
 
... as who wants filters for B&W these days?
...

Um, anyone shooting with B&W film or a Leica MM ... ? ]'-)

Just went through a round of acquiring the right filters for my film cameras. Hassy Series 63 for the SWC, 40.5mm JIS for the Bessa III and M-Rokkor lenses. It's too expensive and too confusing to find orange and green filters for ALL the different lenses, but I do need to get a pair in 43mm that will cover most of the CV Color Skopars, and another pair for the Nokton 50/1.5. Haven't even looked at the Perkeo II and Baldix yet.

Gets expensive. :-\

G
 
Um, anyone shooting with B&W film or a Leica MM ... ? ]'-)

Just went through a round of acquiring the right filters for my film cameras. Hassy Series 63 for the SWC, 40.5mm JIS for the Bessa III and M-Rokkor lenses. It's too expensive and too confusing to find orange and green filters for ALL the different lenses, but I do need to get a pair in 43mm that will cover most of the CV Color Skopars, and another pair for the Nokton 50/1.5. Haven't even looked at the Perkeo II and Baldix yet.

Gets expensive. :-\

G

Two words: Series Adapter. Get one for each lens, and then one set of filters to fit them.

PF
 
I have Elmar 50mm f2.8 M mount, not the latest Elmar-M 50mm. It has 15 blades. Filter size is 39mm. I use vented hood for it, easily found on ebay.

As others have said, you'll need two hands to change the aperture. But that's not a big deal. The real issue is to find one without oil on its blades, the lens design make it very prone to fogging/haze caused by outgassing on the rear part of front glass.
 
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