Embarassing Filter Question

Stu W

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This is a real embarassing question. I've been using filters for years but I'm really not sure about the proper way to do it. I have just about a complete set of Leica filters, but I don't know the filter factors or how to properly compensate. Basically, I've been opening up 1 stop on the yellow, 2 on the green, red and orange. I'm buried on the polarizer and the nd filters. When I hold a filter in front of my light meter the yellow shows about 1 stop, the green has almost no effect! I've hit plenty of web pages but can't find a satisfactory explination-lots of conflicting data. Is ther an easy table to follow? Stu
 
Filter or not to filter

Filter or not to filter

Buy an M5. No worries with filters.

Seriously, there are filter factor tables everywhere. B+W, Hoya, etc. have them. If you can find an old Hoya filter case, there is a filter factor table embossed on the lid. My polarizers are +1.5 stops.
 
What ManGo said. Unless your meter is already adjusted for the typical non-linear response to different colours of the spectrum, it won't necessarily get it right. I know Zone VI modified spot meters to correct for that, and Richard Ritter still does the same work, as he was the technician behind Fred Picker's offering. If you use filters a lot, it's worth the money to have your meter adjusted, IMO. This only works for handheld meters. I don't know if anyone is doing it for built-in meters. It may also be that current (i.e., "modern") meters do not have this problem, but somehow I doubt that's the case.
 
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ManGo is quite right about some filters fooling meters. Once you know the difference between real and indicated for, e.g., deep red, you can compensate manually.

Wayne, a polariser cannot be 1.5 in all conditions. The factor varies with angle of light and degree of polarisation.
 
I suggest you test all your filters with a good, reliable hand-held incident meter. Work in flat, non-changing light conditions. Set the meter on a table, and take an incident reading. Now place the filter over the dome, and take another reading. The difference is the amount the filter holds back, and thus the amount you need to compensate for in exposure. Record the amounts for each filter, and use these amounts when you use the filters, regardless of conditions.
 
My cameras are M3's so no ttl. My slr is a Pentax LX so calculating for the filters was never a problem. When I got into Leica's a couple of years ago I just started guessing as all the tables I have deal in Wrattan filter factors. My handheld meter is a Sekonic and there sure is some sort of color bias. Like I said, using the filters over the meter gives some pretty surprising results. One filter that is a dark green shows less filtering than a medium yellow. With the 13352 polarizer I don't even know where to begin. Stu
 
Stu

The factor and effect will vary between films, some films are near otho, some near pan, some very red sensitive, some peaking into near IR, ignoring the real IR. Fuji and Ilford publish spectral sensitivities.

If you have not kept the documentation on the filters the problem can be worse, two reds can have different factors for the same film.

One does not normally allow for the pola orientation variation in the factor but compensates for the general loss, the sky merely turns out near black, or a reflection nearly vanishes.

CdS meters may be very red sensitive.

Noel
 
Mango, that table is sweet. I think I'm going to print it and keep it with me. Looking at my guesstimates It seems that I wasn't that far off. I guess that's why most of my stuff comes out properly exposed. Drewbarb, I'm going to take some readings through the incidence caps and see what comes out. Thanks again guys. Stu
 
OK- if you are worried about color bias, (I wouldn't be) you try one or both of the following over-kill options: First, get a piece of complimentary color gel for each filter (in roughly the same tone or opacity), measure the amount this holds back on it's own, add the filter and measure again, then subtract the amount of filter factor for the gel alone (or, alternately, average the two, esp. if you are confident of the opacity match). Second, you could test shooting film, and add 1/4 stop with each exposure in a bracket over a range which well covers the amount you suspect the filter/meter combo should be off, check the resulting film with a densitometer to see what exposure yeilds ISO conditions vs. non-filtered speed, and then record and use the difference in the resulting exposure as your correct filter factor.

Just recording these processes is exhausting enough to make me not want to bother. I have used and trusted the filter-over-the-dome testing method for years, and with some experience, will tweak the results depending upon conditions. If in doubt, add some exposure, but don't worry so much about it. This is black and white film, after all, and the exposure lattitude should be enough that you should get good printable negatives even if you are 1/8 to 1/2 stop off- and you really should be able to get well within this ballpark.

Oh- and the polarizer will hold back within 1/8 stop at all angles, so don't worry about what position it's in for testing; color-wise, it should be neutral, so you shouldn't have any problems with your color issues with your meter. Good luck.
 
Thanks Drewbarb. I'm going to try to keep it simple as I can. Noel is right though. I found a web page dealing with filter factors changing for different films and different lighting conditions! I never realized how truly complex filtering is! I'm just going to keep a copy of the page Mango sent and I'll make a chart of my filters with your method. Thanks again. Stu
 
I'm not crazy

I'm not crazy

drewbarb said:
...Oh- and the polarizer will hold back within 1/8 stop at all angles, so don't worry about what position it's in for testing; color-wise, it should be neutral, so you shouldn't have any problems with your color issues with your meter. Good luck.

Thanks drewbarb & Noel. I just followed the B+W documentation which said 1.3 to 1.5 stops. I picked 1.5 as a conservative number and it works for me on my unmetered Pentax body. I have never had a problem with a polarizer on a TTL metered SLR.

So far, the M5 has handled yellow, green and red filters with BW400CN or XP2 Super just fine.
 
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