Ex Girl Friends Ex Boy Friends

boojum said:
I understand the English. It is my native tongue. The mathematics and physics are another realm entirely, like poetry vs quantum mechanics. Understanding the prose definition of "time" does not equate to understanding the meaning in quantum mechanics apparently. It seems a kind of apples and oranges situation. I think this is the basis of the confusion. Again, calendars are as great a challenge as I am qualified for. Clocks sometimes puzzle me.
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Sorry, I did not mean to try to "teach you to suck eggs" I was just laying out my thought processes on the subject. Yes I agree that physics reveal some weird outcomes and Quantum Physics especially so. More especially when you compare it to everyday observations of time in the macro world we exist in. Just the other day there were reports of an experiment in which a quantum particle was observed travelling back in time. But we already know that must occur - Roger Penrose (Nobel Prize winner in physics) has argued strongly that quantum entanglement of particles necessarily must involve something of that kind because these entanglements / interactions are "non-local" - they take place instantly, in theory even if the distance between the particles were halfway across the universe. We see the same kind of thing with "delayed choice / quantum eraser experiments where waves become particles even if an observation is made of them AFTER the event. It's all weird sh#t but incredibly interesting (and difficult to make sense of). But what I was arguing was that it's still a long stretch of the bow for some physicists to argue that time "does not exist." But it clearly does seem to exist though it behaves differently from how we think it does.

As some jokester said "Time is an illusion - in my job, lunch time, doubly so." 🤪

Sorry, this stuff interests me and I read about it. I still do not pretend to understand it. But I do not think physicists really do either - they can only conduct experiments, observe the outcomes, devise theories and try to write mathematical equations based on that which might be helpful in establishing what the hell is going on.
 
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peterm1 said:
Sorry, I did not mean to try to "teach you to suck eggs" I was just laying out my thought processes on the subject. Yes I agree that physics reveal some weird outcomes and Quantum Physics especially so. More especially when you compare it to everyday observations of time in the macro world we exist in. Just the other day there were reports of a quantum particle being observed travelling back in time. But we already know that must occur - Roger Penrose (Nobel Prize winner in physics) has opined that quantum entanglement necessarily must involve something of that kind because these entanglements / interactions are "non local" - they take place instantly, in theory even if the distance between the particles were halfway across the universe. We see the same kind of thing with "delayed choice / quantum eraser experiments where waves become particles even if an observation is made of them AFTER the event. Its all weird sh#t but incredibly interesting (and difficult to make sense of). But what I was arguing it's still a long stretch of the bow for some physicists to argue that time "does not exist." But it clearly does seem to exist and behave differently from how we think it does.

As some jokester said "Time is an illusion - in my job, lunch time, doubly so." 🤪

Sorry, this stuff interests me and I read about it. I still do not pretend to understand it. But I do not think physicists really do either - they can only conduct experiments, observe the outcomes, devise theories and try to write mathematical equations based on that which might be helpful in establishing what the hell is going on.
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I think that we are all unsure of the time concept but that the quantum physicists are a little less unsure but aware that the problem is way more vexing than the man in the street understands. Just as German has Technical German I think we have arrived at a similar place where a special vocabulary exists.

Additionally, being unable to understand something does not deny its existence. This humorous clip makes the example:



There is an Amazonian tribe which while having been exposed to "the outside world" remains within their own culture. Their language is non-recursive which Noam Chomsky declares impossible and they cannot count. They have no numbers. Yet numbers exist for sure. The old book One, Two, Three, Infinity illustrates the Hottentots who can count as high as three and then the next is "many". This is quite humorous to us who can count very high. The Hottentots are numerically more sophisticated that the Amazonian tribe, but not by much. The author then goes on to illustrate that there are three infinities known to us. IIRC they are the sum of all numbers, the sum of all points on a plane and the sum of all possible squiggles described on a plane. And at this point we, too, are stuck at three.

In summation I think we are a bit like the Amazonian tribe which cannot count, or in another way, cannot comprehend numbers. That we cannot understand that time is an illusion does not mean it is not true, it means that we cannot understand the concept. And, yes, even the quantum physicists argue about ti, but that is their job. I am informed that this is the old Hegelian Dialectic, a lift from Socrates: thesis > antithesis > synthesis. And so it goes.

With apologies, the "English is my native language" is a steal from the late, wonderful Senator Sam Ervin.
 
boojum said:
I think that we are all unsure of the time concept but that the quantum physicists are a little less unsure but aware that the problem is way more vexing than the man in the street understands. Just as German has Technical German I think we have arrived at a similar place where a special vocabulary exists.

Additionally, being unable to understand something does not deny its existence. This humorous clip makes the example:



There is an Amazonian tribe which while having been exposed to "the outside world" remains within their own culture. Their language is non-recursive which Noam Chomsky declares impossible and they cannot count. They have no numbers. Yet numbers exist for sure. The old book One, Two, Three, Infinity illustrates the Hottentots who can count as high as three and then the next is "many". This is quite humorous to us who can count very high. The Hottentots are numerically more sophisticated that the Amazonian tribe, but not by much. The author then goes on to illustrate that there are three infinities known to us. IIRC they are the sum of all numbers, the sum of all points on a plane and the sum of all possible squiggles described on a plane. And at this point we, too, are stuck at three.

In summation I think we are a bit like the Amazonian tribe which cannot count, or in another way, cannot comprehend numbers. That we cannot understand that time is an illusion does not mean it is not true, it means that we cannot understand the concept. And, yes, even the quantum physicists argue about ti, but that is their job. I am informed that this is the old Hegelian Dialectic, a lift from Socrates: thesis > antithesis > synthesis. And so it goes.

With apologies, the "English is my native language" is a steal from the late, wonderful Senator Sam Ervin.
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All of which reminds me of T.S. Eliot - BURNT NORTON (No. 1 of 'Four Quartets')

“Time present and time past​

Are both perhaps present in time future,​

And time future contained in time past.​

If all time is eternally present​

All time is unredeemable.​

What might have been is an abstraction​

Remaining a perpetual possibility​

Only in a world of speculation.​

What might have been and what has been​

Point to one end, which is always present.​

Footfalls echo in the memory​

Down the passage which we did not take​

Towards the door we never opened​

Into the rose-garden................​

Time past and time future​

What might have been and what has been​

Point to one end, which is always present.”​

​

 
peterm1 said:
All of which reminds me of T.S. Eliot - BURNT NORTON (No. 1 of 'Four Quartets')

“Time present and time past​

Are both perhaps present in time future,​

And time future contained in time past.​

If all time is eternally present​

All time is unredeemable.​

What might have been is an abstraction​

Remaining a perpetual possibility​

Only in a world of speculation.​

What might have been and what has been​

Point to one end, which is always present.​

Footfalls echo in the memory​

Down the passage which we did not take​

Towards the door we never opened​

Into the rose-garden................​

Time past and time future​

What might have been and what has been​

Point to one end, which is always present.”​

​

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Again I say that calendars are about my limit. Clocks can confuse me. ;o)
 
Anybody who can make photos with a Hasselblad, a Leica or (me) a Rolleiflex, or figure out how to do correct readings with a Gossen Luna Pro, can't be that confused.
 
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Freakscene said:
View attachment 4857105

From the dim past. A scan of a test strip hand coated with an emulsion I made.

Like our bodies and like our desires, the machines that we have devised are possessed of a heart which is slowly reduced to embers.
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Our problems differ slightly. While my body is crumbling my desires have not. Talk about madness! LOL I guess that is another curse of longevity. Burying friends is another.

But, and this is big, having the surviving old buddies is great. I was on the phone with a fellow I did my Army time with in France from '62 to '64. Very possibly the best years of my life. Being young, footloose and fancy-free in France, that's about as good as it gets.
 
DownUnder said:
Agree. You have managed to confuse me as well. Good one!
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I think we are all confused about time. But we are all marked by it and by the experiences it has brought us........the people we have loved and who have loved us. The ones who have betrayed us and the ones we have betrayed. At any moment in time, we are marked with all of our experiences, good and bad.
Cogitating this stuff always reminds me of this wonderful scene from The English Patient. (I am a sucker for a sobby romance drama if it is intelligent and well done.) This clip seems purpose made for this thread's subject - old loves. Love found, loves lost.

 
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Hey Folks, I believe @raid started this thread as an image thread. A place to share PHOTOS of Ex-Girlfriends and Ex-Boyfriends. It is kind of given away in his opening post:

raid said:
Let's see some photos of your ex girl/boy friends!
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Doesn't seem like he intended it to be a long winded conversation about the meaning of time.

Can we please get back to posting PHOTOS and keep the philosophical discussions of time and existence for some other thread?

Thanks.

Best,
-Tim
 
Timmyjoe said:
Hey Folks, I believe @raid started this thread as an image thread. A place to share PHOTOS of Ex-Girlfriends and Ex-Boyfriends. It is kind of given away in his opening post:



Doesn't seem like he intended it to be a long winded conversation about the meaning of time.

Can we please get back to posting PHOTOS and keep the philosophical discussions of time and existence for some other thread?

Thanks.

Best,
-Tim
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I do understand your wish to see photos. But I, for one, love these meandering digressions, and I do feel they belong here. Think of the conversations you have with a good friend; do they stay "on topic", or do they digress into all sorts of things that interest you? I like to think of RFF as a conversation with friends, of just that sort. Relax; enjoy the chit-chat, and rest assured there will be more photos.
 
Retro-Grouch said:
I do understand your wish to see photos. But I, for one, love these meandering digressions, and I do feel they belong here. Think of the conversations you have with a good friend; do they stay "on topic", or do they digress into all sorts of things that interest you? I like to think of RFF as a conversation with friends, of just that sort. Relax; enjoy the chit-chat, and rest assured there will be more photos.
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I have to disagree. There are certainly places for those types of discussions, but this thread was started as a "show us some photos" thread, similar to a w/nw thread. If you want to have a discussion about other things, start another thread.

Best,
-Tim
 
Retro-Grouch said:
I do understand your wish to see photos. But I, for one, love these meandering digressions, and I do feel they belong here. Think of the conversations you have with a good friend; do they stay "on topic", or do they digress into all sorts of things that interest you? I like to think of RFF as a conversation with friends, of just that sort. Relax; enjoy the chit-chat, and rest assured there will be more photos.
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You have expressed exactly as I feel about it. Well articulated! It is a very human thing - something which builds bonds of friendship and trust in fact, for mates to sit around and perhaps over a few beers (or not) engage in a meandering bull session which mixes serious discussion about the business at hand with other matters and traverses a whole range of topics most often in a very organic manner with no particular agenda or intent. It allows people to get to know each other. Which I count as a good thing. If I were in a business meeting in an office committee room though, I freely admit I would feel differently. But I do not regard this as being that kind of setting, not should it be.
 
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boojum said:
Our problems differ slightly. While my body is crumbling my desires have not. Talk about madness! LOL I guess that is another curse of longevity. Burying friends is another.

But, and this is big, having the surviving old buddies is great. I was on the phone with a fellow I did my Army time with in France from '62 to '64. Very possibly the best years of my life. Being young, footloose and fancy-free in France, that's about as good as it gets.
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True, true... And it seems our paths nearly crossed. I was near Izmir Turkey in 63 and 64 with USAF, pausing in Paris on a 10-day leave on the way out through Brussels. As to girlfriends I was intercepted on a walk in Izmir by a French girl looking for an American husband, visited her home where her mother demonstrated the service I could expect by sewing a loose button on my jacket but the relationship didn't stick.
 
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Paris, about 20 years ago. The woman in front of the window was my girlfriend.
From this photo I had to understand that she wasn't the woman for me... when do you ever photograph a girlfriend like this?
We lived together for about 10 years and then broke up without regrets. She had an advantage that I have never found in the same way: he always said what he thought... maybe that's why it didn't work!
Contax G1 and kodak Tri-x.
img183.jpg
 
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