f2 Summicron Collapsible [Help]

[Underaglassbell]

Good afternoon,
I was hoping someone could help answer a question I have concerning the f2 Summicron Collapsible's:

In-short I have always wanted to own a Collapsible lens and think I may have found the one I want in the f2 Summicron Collapsible:

However the one I have my 'eye on' is listed as a: "M mount Collapsible 5cm Summicron" - Early production with focusing scale in feet only.

Serial no.1174178

[Example images attached].


I have seen examples from time to time; however the tags (i use Flickr) on images often just note: 'f2 Summicron Collapsible' and not the mount type, thus brings me to my question:

Of the two - which is the /better glass/, the M mount f2 Summicron Collapsible or the Screw mount?

I don't mind a bit of flare, and I have to say I like the f2 Summicron Collapsible's 'traits' - I'm no Bokeh whore, but from what I have seen this lens can dish out some real nice Bokeh (which is always nice) from time to time.

The problem is that (as noted) most of the examples you see online or indeed that I have found on Flickr just mention 'f2 Summicron Collapsible' not the mount type, so I am curious is there is any /real/ difference (other then the mount) between the early screw mount (LTM?) and the later M mount f2 Summicron Collapsible lens?


On another note, I also found what appears to be a 3rd newer M version?

Source:
http://www.amazon.com/Leica-Summicron-Manual-Focus-11826/dp/B00009V3FL


The lens shown in the attachments is currently going for US $749.99 - which is just over £400 and just within the budget I set myself for a 50mm Collapsible lens.
- Does this seem a fair price for the early M mount f2 Summicron Collapsible?



Regards
DaN


http://www.flickr.com/photos/underaglassbell/
flickr

 

[former member]

The price is way out of line for a collapsible Summicron.

Of mine, the ones in the 13x SN range are better than the early ones.

M-Mount and LTM lenses are the same optically.

 

[Ljós]

What Brian said.

Regarding the collapsible lens you found via amazon: this is the latest (now discontinued) version of the collapsible f2.8 Elmar lens, so no Summicron. It focuses down to 0.7m. It will not give you the vintage look; some users here on RFF prefer its look compared to the latest fixed barrel Summicrons.

All the best, Ljós

 

[Underaglassbell]

What Brian said.

Regarding the collapsible lens you found via amazon: this is the latest (now discontinued) version of the collapsible f2.8 Elmar lens, so no Summicron. It focuses down to 0.7m. It will not give you the vintage look; some users here on RFF prefer its look compared to the latest fixed barrel Summicrons.

All the best, Ljós

Ah Thanks; excuse the ignorance.

The vintage look is something I do like, and perhaps subconsciously one of the reason's I have been looking at the 'old' collapsible's.

At the moment I have the Zeiss ZM 50mm/f1.5 which does seem to exhibit a vintage look of sorts.

Couple I have taken with the XM 50/f1.5


[Wayfarer] by uηderaglassbell, on Flickr



[10/30] by uηderaglassbell, on Flickr


I just don't use the f1.5 as much I thought I would, so I think f2 is perfectly fine for the way I shoot.
- It's nice to have, but I think I probably have only used the lens below f2 on maybe two occasions, most I shoot between f2 and f5.6.


DaN

 

[Underaglassbell]

The price is way out of line for a collapsible Summicron.

Of mine, the ones in the 13x SN range are better than the early ones.

M-Mount and LTM lenses are the same optically.

Thanks, Yeah it did seem a little steep - but it's the only M mount f2 collapsible Summicron I found :/
- I was expecting something around $400

 

[former member]

A little patience is required. Make sure to get pictures of the lens. Collapsible Summicrons are prone to cleaning marks, and can get internal haze. The latter is fairly easy to clean.

Want to Buy ads are free at RFF. You might post one there, RFF'rs are always turning gear around. Get one that has been used, and that you can get pictures of the lens and taken with the lens.

Some comparison shots with a couple of my Summicrons:

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81311&highlight=summicron

Avoid those with SN under 106xxxx. They use Thorium Glass. Collectible, but not good for color. I have two of them.

 

[Underaglassbell]

How does one post an Ad?

 

[former member]

AHA! Now I have to do something useful!

Try following these steps:

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost-classifieds/uploadproduct.php

Select "wanted" for ad type, go from there.

 

[Underaglassbell]

Hah, Thanks!

I have posted my Add: http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost-classifieds/showproduct.php?product=24107

Here's hoping!
- By-the by; I really like the examples photo's you posted from your Collapsible Summicron.


Regards
DaN

 

[xoDox]

Mine is collapsible radioactive from the early 50's - #102****. I was amazed how it handles high contrast scenes and develops the shades for B&W. It's amazingly sharp wide open. Although I would not recommend it for color, perhaps it's brownish glass shifts the color pallette somehow. Although, this may be edited in PSP. The attached pics were not edited besides general downsizing. Camera was RD1.

 

[former member]

The Thoriated glass becomes damaged over the years. I bought one after it was sun-bleached, and had to relube it. The grease was a solid mess from the heat, and age.

For the OP- you might post a link to the Want Ad in your signature.

 

[Erik van Straten]

The collapsible Summicron is one of the nicest 50mm lenses around.

Leica MP, Summicron collapsible 50mm f/2, Tmax400 printed on Ilford MGIV fb.

Erik.

 

[Underaglassbell]

Leica MP and Summicron collapsible - damn you 😛

Part of me still wishes I went for the MP rather then my M7; but that said I love my M7.

 

[loneranger]

How is the collapsible 50 cron different than the rigid cron of the same period?

 

[mfogiel]

Summicron Collapsible is a very fine lens. A bit soft wide open and lower contrast than the Rigid/DR, but the bokeh is very nice and the 3d rendering very good. Contrast wise it is between the old 50/2.8 Elmar and the Rigid/DR. Sharpness wise, stopped down to f5.6-8 it is as good as the Rigid/DR. It is light and compact when collapsed - a great walk around lens, HCB's favourite. I also have the M mount version, here's a shot :

 

[Erik van Straten]

The first rigid Summicron 50mm f/2 is one of the nicest lenses around.

Leica M2, rigid Summicron 50mm f/2, TriX printed on Ilford MGIV fb.

Erik.

 

[former member]

Both are 7 element in 5 group designs. The first generation Rigid Summicron is "tweeked" with the aid of a computer. The optics are bigger in diameter, and the air spacing between groups was changed slightly. The Rigid Summicron is put together with tighter tolerances than the collapsible lens. The Rigid is slightly sharper, and slightly higher contrast. It is heavier, and not as compact.

 

[eieio]

I have LTM version and very please with the result of this lens. From what I've read, I think both LTM and M version are the same both in term of construction and performance.

Here are some of my latest pictures from this lens, M2 + Collapsible Summicron + Ilford Pan 400, D76 1:1, scan with Epson V500.

I got mine at around $350. It has some cleaning mark on the front element which I think is usual for this lens due to very soft lens coating.

 

[ampguy]

Here's what I've found, YMMV: Virtually any Collapsible Cron is going to need rebuilding, not a CLA, but a rebuild. Budget $150 for this.

If you have an M mount camera, get an M version. If you have an LTM camera, get the LTM version.

That said, once you have your Coll. Cron rebuilt, it will be better than any cron 50/2 ever made, assuming the glass and coatings were good.

So try not to pay more than $200-$300, then for $350-$500 you have the best 50/2 Leica has ever made. Get a 3rd party screw in hood, leave off the filters.

 

[Steve M.]

I have a DR now and it's a great lens, but the one lens I regret selling was an earlier model LTM 50 collapsible. It had essentially no cleaning marks on the front element, but it did have some fungus inside. It was very, very sharp and had that old time Leica look w/ the images it made. I seriously doubt a CLA would have made it better, and if I had kept it I wouldn't have had it done. Just kept an eye on the fungus to see if it got worse.

As a side note, I've owned about a half dozen DR's, all were in great condition, and every one of them imaged a little differently. A couple imaged a lot differently. Nothing beats buying several samples, testing them against themselves, and keeping the one that you like. I had to do this even when I was shooting new Nikon SLR's. Sample variation is real.