Fast and furious...but how fast?

Dear Bertram,

"So a fast lens is of VERY limited use , you will find that confirmed after some time of practising with it at all apertures."

Sorry: disagree completely. It may be of very limited use to you, but not to me, I shoot a lot of film every year at full bore, and as I said, if I could afford a 50/1 I'd buy it. The ONLY things that stop me buyiong ultra-fast lenses are money and the fact that some are horribly bulky e.g. the 75/1.4 instead of the 75/2, or the new 35/14 Summiluxes as compared with my last-generation pre-aspheric.

I really don't think you can say that everyone will find your view confirmed, any more than I can say that everyone will find my view confirmed.

Cheers,

Roger
 
Glad to hear that you are going with the Canon 50mm F1.4. It is a great all-around lens. You also asked about the size difference between the lenses, instead of making you go through the Camera and Coffee thread, here are links to the attachments.

Canon IIf with 50mm F1.5 Canon:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=5136

Canon L1 with 50mm F1.5 Summarit:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2540

Canon 7 with the Nikkor 5cm F1.4:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2541

Canon VI-T with the Nikkor next to the Canon 7 with the Canon 50mm F1.4:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=9355
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=9353

As for the budget question, the two F1.4 lenses did not run much more than an F1.8. More a question of patience and waiting for the right lens to come along at the right price. The Nikkor 5cm F1.4 ran $95 at Midwest Photo Exchange 2 years ago, the Canon 7 with the Canon 50mm F1.4 ran $395 on an Ebay BIN last year, and the Canon IIF with the Canon 50mm F1.5 ran $350 at a camera show this winter. The F1.5 is on the rare side compared with the other two. The Summarit was under $140 on Ebay, add in an $80 CLA.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Kin Lau said:
Coming from Stephanie's viewpoint, and one that I can also understand, budget = lack of funds 🙂, and is the _main_ deciding factor on how fast of a lense one can get. Once you get past the "budget = lack of $$$" problem, then you can change the order around.
Click to expand...

Well, my understanding of Stepanie's statement was the same , if you really need a fast lens and can't buy it then budget is of course a limiting factor. No doubt about it and so far Stepanies point of view was correct.

But what I meant was that the budget issue is a misleading point in or discussion. We were talking about fast and super fast lenses and if it makes sense to buy them.
If you have no money you must not decide anything.
Regards,
Bertram
 
Roger Hicks said:
Dear Bertram,

"So a fast lens is of VERY limited use , you will find that confirmed after some time of practising with it at all apertures."
I shoot a lot of film every year at full bore, and as I said, if I could afford a 50/1 I'd buy it.
The ONLY things that stop me buyiong ultra-fast lenses are money ............
I really don't think you can say that everyone will find your view confirmed...........
Cheers,
Roger
Click to expand...

Roger,
maybe I should have said better the extra stop is of very limited use ?

I was talking about facts and not about personal preferences.
If you use such lenses a lot wide open that's not a contradiction to the facts I'd say.
You like a certain style of shooting, you know how to use these lenses wide open and what you can use it for or not.

And don't get me wrong, slow lenses are not a religion for me. I know very well why I haven't sold my Nokton tho my J8 has "almost " the same speed.

I just wanted to say that a stop more isn't just a stop more, what you can use that stop for depends on how you gain it: ISO,shuttertime, lens, support etc.
That's a very old truth, isn't it ?

Nonetheless beginners often step into this trap and are bitterly disapointed later because the lens is not good for what they had bought it but all the money is off.

Best regards,
Bertram
 
The problem is getting the Zeiss Sonnar 5cm F1.5 in Leica Thread Mount. It is a FANTASTIC lens. I use it on the Contax IIIa but prefer it on the Nikon S2 for the 1x viewfinder. I modified the film-flange distance to use it on the S2. Otherwise the focus would have been off.

If you want the "Sonnar" look on the Leica, the Canon 50mm F1.5 and Nikkor 5cm F1.4 or "copies" of it. I personally think that the Canon is the more faithful copy to the Sonnar personality. I also picked up an inexpensive Jupiter-3 50mm F1.5 in LTM and am testing it out. The workmanship is not as good as the other lenses, but at $50- no complaints.

5CM F1.5 Zeiss-Opton Sonnar, wide-open.
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=2335&cat=3204&page=7

Stopped Down, ~F4:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=2336&cat=3204&page=7
 
And just to show that I have a slower lens, here's the Type I Rigid Summicron on the M3, wide-open. I also have the 50mm F3.5 Elmar on the IIIf, great for outdoors.

M3, type I Rigid 50mm F2 Summicron, wide-open.
 
Dear Betram,

I see your point, though I am still not entirely sure that I agree. What I would say, though, is that a fast lens is not one of those things where you have to ask yourself if you need it or not. If you are constantly running out of light, as I am, you KNOW.

On the other hand I fully take your point about d-o-f. A couple of days ago I was shooting Delta 3200 at EI 3200 with a 90/2 (I'd mislaid the 75/2). The 75/2 would have been better but a 75/1.4 woukdn't, for precisely the reasons you give. But I might have considered the 50/1 instead, if I sill had it...

Cheers,

Roger
 
Last edited:
I agree with Dante on the focus error. The same error happens when you mount a Zeiss lens on the Nikon Body. I took the focussing helical off of the Nikon S2 and moved it out 0.5mm to correct most of the error. The residual is covered by the DOF, even at F1.5. I set the camera up on an Optical Bench at work to verify the focus, and it works well in use. On the Jupiter lenses, it should be possible to add a 0.5mm ring on the back of the lens to compensate. Step 1: I am testing the lens for error, step two: build up the coupling.
 
How is that ring added? The idea, to review, is to move the lens mount .5 mm farther from the film plane, correct? Does the screw part of the lens mount itself screw out, allowing something to be added (an o-ring) that would keep it farther out?


A standard spacer (or even a standard method a la the various Yashica POD methods outlined here and elsewhere) might make a nice addition that I'm sure lots of FSU folks would appreciate.
 
The lens that I would love to find in LTM, as McBroom's lists it as being available in that mount, is the Schneider Xenon 50mm F1.9.

(I think I yelled, "Look! That poor squirrel fell out of the tree!")

This one works with the Retina IIIS, and is wide-open. I should add that this lens cost $10.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I took the Jupiter-3 apart from the front to clean it. I will have to "surf" for some disassembly instruction, it was not obvious like the Canons. Moving the lens out 0.5mm will work. As the entire lens module moves the RF cam on the camera, putting a 0.5mm ring on the back of the lens-the part that contacts the RF pickup wheel- should be a quick-and-dirty solution. I will lose some of the close-focus, but not much.
 
Bertram2 said:
Well, my understanding of Stepanie's statement was the same , if you really need a fast lens and can't buy it then budget is of course a limiting factor. No doubt about it and so far Stepanies point of view was correct.

But what I meant was that the budget issue is a misleading point in or discussion. We were talking about fast and super fast lenses and if it makes sense to buy them.
If you have no money you must not decide anything.
Regards,
Bertram
Click to expand...

Lack of funds does not equal no funds. That's why we call it a budget instead of being broke... little difference sometimes 🙂. Budgets can also be relative, as I'm sure Roger's budget and Steph's budget are going to be _slightly_ different, but yet a very large factor in the decision making process. The difference btwn a f2, f1.5 & f1.2/f1.1/f1.0 is _huge_ in the RF world if you're jumping from a J8 to a Nokton, but the difference btwn new lenses is not near as much... I just checked Cameraquest, and a new 50/2.5 is only $289 and 50/1.5 only $329, a $40- difference. Unfortunately, you bought your's at the wrong time, but if you're following the discussion, that's the range we were originally discussing before veering off into super-fast territory.

I choose not to view every statement in absolute terms, and try to see a little humour and enjoy the opinions of others.
 
dreilly said:
What about all that stuff on Dante Stella's website about the Jupiter lenses having inherent focusing errors on Leica bodies (by design, not q.c.). Any analysis of that? If I had a good shot at a good one, I'd try the j-3 in a second.
Click to expand...


If you look at the specs on modern LTM cameras virtually every one of them has its own lens-to-film distance--close but not exactly 28.8mm (which is the Russian standard and I believe Leica, too). In most cases, even when using normal lenses from another brand, it won't make any difference because if the lens is stopped down the dof will take care of the ltf difference. Where you will run into problems when using say a J8 on a Bessa or (doesn't Konica make an LTM?) is when you are shooting wide open. There's very little margin for error.
 
Brian Sweeney said:
As for the budget question...

the Canon 7 with the Canon 50mm F1.4 ran $395 on an Ebay BIN last year....
Click to expand...

Ritz collectiblesRitz Collectibles has a Canon 7 w/ 10/1.4 listed for $425 now. Seems like a good price for that combo if anyone's interested.

Scott
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

A
Fast mid-long zooms - why not?
Replies
18
Views
976
Ko.Fe.
Ko.Fe.
Ken Ford
Comparing the Voigtlander fast 50s
Replies
15
Views
1K
Yokosuka Mike
Yokosuka Mike
jaredangle
Nikon FA focusing screen with fast primes?
Replies
6
Views
1K
jaredangle
jaredangle
L
How did you scan the film ?
2 3
Replies
43
Views
4K
boojum
boojum
aoresteen
Voigtlander 50mm f/1.0 For Nikon SP?
Replies
7
Views
509
former member
F
Back
Top Bottom