tunznath
Established
Hi all
i was searching the archive for an answer to how to remove the sticky out rewind on a fed 4, and saw a post by kapa, everyone said to check out rick olesons site, BUT it doesnt tell you anything - so has anyone any idea on how to remove the rewind on a fed 4 -
thanks Nathan
i was searching the archive for an answer to how to remove the sticky out rewind on a fed 4, and saw a post by kapa, everyone said to check out rick olesons site, BUT it doesnt tell you anything - so has anyone any idea on how to remove the rewind on a fed 4 -
thanks Nathan
wolves3012
Veteran
Which version of the FED 4, with or without light-meter? I have taken the top off a FED 4 with light meter so I can tell you how, if it's this one...
tunznath
Established
hey thanks its the one with the light meter
wolves3012
Veteran
I'll need to refresh my memory by looking at the camera, so I'll post the answer later since I'm at work. If you're tempted beforehand, a word of caution: DO NOT remove the screw in the middle of the exposure calculator and then the screws near it on the top! The light meter will fall out if you do and it covers the (non-captive) retaining nut under the calculator dial. This all becomes a real pain to reassemble, as I found out, and none of it needs to come apart to remove the top cover.
tunznath
Established
ok great I can wait till you post the answer
Thanks
Nathan
Thanks
Nathan
wolves3012
Veteran
Tuznath,
Here goes:
1. Undo the screw in the centre of the winder/frame counter (normal thread), you'll need something like tweezers or the proper tool.
2. Lift off the film reminder and frame counter. Take careful note of the order of the washers and spacers under each part. When replacing it all, press quite hard on the top dial while you replace the screw.
3. Undo the 3 screws on the wind-lever and remove it - no springs will fly (unlike a Zorki 4!). I can't remember if there's a screw in the top plate under the wind lever, if there is remove it.
3. Slacken the grub-screw in the periphery of the rewind collar around the shutter button, then unscrew the collar.
4. Slacken the 2 grub-screws in the periphery of the speed dial and lift it off.
5. Slacken the 2 grub-screws in the VF diopter ring and remove it. Now turn the tube it was mounted on (can't remember which way). After turning it, push the tube into the top cover so it's flush.
6. Remove the 4 screws around the top cover rim (2 front, 2 back).
7. The top cover will now come off. You have to lift the wind-lever end first because you'll have to fiddle it over the rewind wheel, which is quite a pain. Two things to be careful of: first, be careful that you don't pull the meter-cell lead (easily done - have a peek when the cover is partly off). Second, be aware there's a large-ish, thin washer over the eyepiece tube, inside the top cover. It'll fall out somewhere along the process, either into the top or on the floor! Remember to replace it when refitting the top.
Putting it all back is a simple (!) reversal of the steps above.
Have fun - it's probably one of the worst FSUs to get the cover off since you have to fiddle & jiggle it a lot! All the others just lift off nicely, not the FED 4.
Here goes:
1. Undo the screw in the centre of the winder/frame counter (normal thread), you'll need something like tweezers or the proper tool.
2. Lift off the film reminder and frame counter. Take careful note of the order of the washers and spacers under each part. When replacing it all, press quite hard on the top dial while you replace the screw.
3. Undo the 3 screws on the wind-lever and remove it - no springs will fly (unlike a Zorki 4!). I can't remember if there's a screw in the top plate under the wind lever, if there is remove it.
3. Slacken the grub-screw in the periphery of the rewind collar around the shutter button, then unscrew the collar.
4. Slacken the 2 grub-screws in the periphery of the speed dial and lift it off.
5. Slacken the 2 grub-screws in the VF diopter ring and remove it. Now turn the tube it was mounted on (can't remember which way). After turning it, push the tube into the top cover so it's flush.
6. Remove the 4 screws around the top cover rim (2 front, 2 back).
7. The top cover will now come off. You have to lift the wind-lever end first because you'll have to fiddle it over the rewind wheel, which is quite a pain. Two things to be careful of: first, be careful that you don't pull the meter-cell lead (easily done - have a peek when the cover is partly off). Second, be aware there's a large-ish, thin washer over the eyepiece tube, inside the top cover. It'll fall out somewhere along the process, either into the top or on the floor! Remember to replace it when refitting the top.
Putting it all back is a simple (!) reversal of the steps above.
Have fun - it's probably one of the worst FSUs to get the cover off since you have to fiddle & jiggle it a lot! All the others just lift off nicely, not the FED 4.
tunznath
Established
Great Thanks a million for that -
two questions - should the camera be cocked and the speed set on an easily remembered setting or should it be uncocked.
and second - i dont have to remove the rewind fork at all like on an slr, just fiddle the cover over the wind wheel?
I havent worked on an FSU yet so it will be interesting - i have replaced PODs on electros with success so heres hoping that i will be able to get this one going - for some peculiar reason reason I can set all speeds except for a 1/30th - the speed selector just doesnt want to go clockwise to it - only gets as far as B, also the slow speeds dont release easily, you either have to lift the selector up slightly or hold the camera upside down and really push the shutter release, so I am thinking there will be major gummy lube in there - I was looking for info in the maizenberg book I got off the net downloaded from a russian site, there were 3 or 4 versions of instructions but none had a thing on the fed 4, plus they were all in russian, which didnt help , I was looking for some illustrations but there werent any for the fed 4 - have you seen those repair instructions?
I have the link somewhere if you havent.
Many thanks once again will let you know how it went
Nathan
two questions - should the camera be cocked and the speed set on an easily remembered setting or should it be uncocked.
and second - i dont have to remove the rewind fork at all like on an slr, just fiddle the cover over the wind wheel?
I havent worked on an FSU yet so it will be interesting - i have replaced PODs on electros with success so heres hoping that i will be able to get this one going - for some peculiar reason reason I can set all speeds except for a 1/30th - the speed selector just doesnt want to go clockwise to it - only gets as far as B, also the slow speeds dont release easily, you either have to lift the selector up slightly or hold the camera upside down and really push the shutter release, so I am thinking there will be major gummy lube in there - I was looking for info in the maizenberg book I got off the net downloaded from a russian site, there were 3 or 4 versions of instructions but none had a thing on the fed 4, plus they were all in russian, which didnt help , I was looking for some illustrations but there werent any for the fed 4 - have you seen those repair instructions?
I have the link somewhere if you havent.
Many thanks once again will let you know how it went
Nathan
wolves3012
Veteran
It makes no difference if you cock the shutter or not. When you've sorted it all out it's easy enough to re-align the speed dial after it's back together. Yes, just fiddle the top cover over the wheel, which is actually the tricky part (and getting it back after!). I haven't seen repair instructions, I figured the FED 4 myself (hence the light-meter mistake!). Most of the FEDs and Zorkis are very similar once you figure the differences in frame counters, meters and so on.
I'm quite intrigued about the lack of 1/30th on yours, I can't think of a reason it won't go that far unless there's something from the slow-speed escapement blocking it somehow. Let me/us know how you get on.
I'm quite intrigued about the lack of 1/30th on yours, I can't think of a reason it won't go that far unless there's something from the slow-speed escapement blocking it somehow. Let me/us know how you get on.
Kapa
Established
tunznath- goodluck on sorting out your Fed-4. I gave up on trying to take off top plate (it was only to give RF etc a clean afterall.... oh, and hopelessly try & repair the lightmeter ;-) )... I have now sold it .... Gotta say, my copy had the smoothest film advance/shutter cock & quiet shutter noise of all FSU rangefinders I've handled. The Fed-4 is ugly as sin, but it rocks!!!
tunznath
Established
Hi all
I removed the top with the help of wolves instructions - many thanks they were great - and cleaned the VF RF - regarding the selector not delecting the 1/30th speed, the selector doesnt have any marks on it at the 1/30 mark - you know the shiny tracks left when the selector is moved and looks like it has never been moved that way - I can see why , the selector fork thing, doesnt move beyond B - it is as if there is a burr, or the selector disk is to big and doesnt let the fork move that way or the selector fork is bent?
Any ideas??? - if not able to repair I will just not use 1/30th
Next thing the shutter relese doesnt seem to move down far enough to release the shutter, comparing it to my fed 3 the button doesnt seem to pop up as much , Does anyone have any hints or instructions as to how to remove it and clean it, the whole clutch dog thing seems also to be gummed up, when rewinding film it is quite stiff to turn the rewind and when i did a test by turning the sprocket thing it was free but sticky in comparison again to my fed 3.
for anyone wanting to remove the top of a fed 4 Wolves instructions are great and it is not all that difficult, (to unscrew the viewfinder tube it is CCW) while i was in the camera I also cleaned and slightly lubed the rangefinder arm that was gummy and now it works great.
Generally it is a really nice smooth camera, and I am really happy with it, it just has a couple of issues.
Thanks again to all the posters
Nathan
I removed the top with the help of wolves instructions - many thanks they were great - and cleaned the VF RF - regarding the selector not delecting the 1/30th speed, the selector doesnt have any marks on it at the 1/30 mark - you know the shiny tracks left when the selector is moved and looks like it has never been moved that way - I can see why , the selector fork thing, doesnt move beyond B - it is as if there is a burr, or the selector disk is to big and doesnt let the fork move that way or the selector fork is bent?
Any ideas??? - if not able to repair I will just not use 1/30th
Next thing the shutter relese doesnt seem to move down far enough to release the shutter, comparing it to my fed 3 the button doesnt seem to pop up as much , Does anyone have any hints or instructions as to how to remove it and clean it, the whole clutch dog thing seems also to be gummed up, when rewinding film it is quite stiff to turn the rewind and when i did a test by turning the sprocket thing it was free but sticky in comparison again to my fed 3.
for anyone wanting to remove the top of a fed 4 Wolves instructions are great and it is not all that difficult, (to unscrew the viewfinder tube it is CCW) while i was in the camera I also cleaned and slightly lubed the rangefinder arm that was gummy and now it works great.
Generally it is a really nice smooth camera, and I am really happy with it, it just has a couple of issues.
Thanks again to all the posters
Nathan
wolves3012
Veteran
I doubt the selector is bent, they're cast alloy and tend to break rather than bend. The only restriction to the selector is a pin that prevents you passing between 1/30th-sec and 1-sec settings. Can you post a photo of the selector, preferably when set to the furthest you can, plus one with it set to a higher speed?
Regarding the release, I've never taken one apart but I'd guess it's not unlike the Zorki 4 one that's in the CLA - Zorki 4 sticky. Have a look and see if that gives you enough explanation. To dismantle the rewind dog-clutch means totally stripping the crate and shutter, which I'd avoid if at all possible. Try wrapping tissue around the bottom of the sprocket, then feeding lighter/cleaning fluid into the slot near the top of the sprocket. Work the rewind release back and forth plenty of times then let it all dry out. Add a drop or two of oil into the slot and work that in. Hopefully that'll free things up enough without a strip.
Regarding the release, I've never taken one apart but I'd guess it's not unlike the Zorki 4 one that's in the CLA - Zorki 4 sticky. Have a look and see if that gives you enough explanation. To dismantle the rewind dog-clutch means totally stripping the crate and shutter, which I'd avoid if at all possible. Try wrapping tissue around the bottom of the sprocket, then feeding lighter/cleaning fluid into the slot near the top of the sprocket. Work the rewind release back and forth plenty of times then let it all dry out. Add a drop or two of oil into the slot and work that in. Hopefully that'll free things up enough without a strip.
tunznath
Established
Hi All +Wolves
Here are the pictures of the selector, It gets to about where I have indicated and then takes quite a bit of force to get it to move further, it also makes a skreeik noise and the knurled bits on the winder - the frame counter and all the other bits move about a mm - not good huh?
then I have posted some pics as i cant figure out which screw to release A or B to get the release out, to clean it, i have removed both but the shutter release button doesnt budge so put them back, am I doing anything wrong, does the shutter button thing unscrew?
Hope the pics of the selector are OK, it was hard getting in there to shoot them - you can see where there are no marks on the selector disk where there should be if the selector pin ever went past B to 30.
Here are the pictures of the selector, It gets to about where I have indicated and then takes quite a bit of force to get it to move further, it also makes a skreeik noise and the knurled bits on the winder - the frame counter and all the other bits move about a mm - not good huh?
then I have posted some pics as i cant figure out which screw to release A or B to get the release out, to clean it, i have removed both but the shutter release button doesnt budge so put them back, am I doing anything wrong, does the shutter button thing unscrew?
Hope the pics of the selector are OK, it was hard getting in there to shoot them - you can see where there are no marks on the selector disk where there should be if the selector pin ever went past B to 30.
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tunznath
Established
tunznath
Established
wolves3012
Veteran
Tuznath,
I can't see anything particularly wrong with that selector - apart from one possiblilty that I can't quite make out from the photos.
It's pretty clear that the slot for 1/30th exists, you can see it beyond the "B" slot. As for why the selector isn't going that far I think I just may be able to see the reason but it's not clear because of the angles of your photos. On the slow-speed escapement there's a pin on the underside of the large "O" shaped gear, it's meant to engage with the selector on slow speeds. Do I see a glimpse of this pin fouling the selector in the 2nd photo? If so, then slow-speed escapement is set up wrongly...do all the slow speeds work properly?
If I'm wrong on that one, I'd suggest removing the slow-speed mechanism anyway and then the selector itself to take a look at it.
With regards to removing the rewind release, I'm afraid I've never had one of these apart so I'm not able to advise you, sorry. Removing the set-screw you marked "A" would seem to be logical but I can't confirm if this is correct.
I can't see anything particularly wrong with that selector - apart from one possiblilty that I can't quite make out from the photos.
It's pretty clear that the slot for 1/30th exists, you can see it beyond the "B" slot. As for why the selector isn't going that far I think I just may be able to see the reason but it's not clear because of the angles of your photos. On the slow-speed escapement there's a pin on the underside of the large "O" shaped gear, it's meant to engage with the selector on slow speeds. Do I see a glimpse of this pin fouling the selector in the 2nd photo? If so, then slow-speed escapement is set up wrongly...do all the slow speeds work properly?
If I'm wrong on that one, I'd suggest removing the slow-speed mechanism anyway and then the selector itself to take a look at it.
With regards to removing the rewind release, I'm afraid I've never had one of these apart so I'm not able to advise you, sorry. Removing the set-screw you marked "A" would seem to be logical but I can't confirm if this is correct.
tunznath
Established
Hi Wolves
Thanks for the info - The slow speeds work on all but the 30th I will check to see if anything is fouling the selector tomorrow - BTW- the picture might be deceiving - the selector does move beyond where it is in the second photo - I had to take the pic with the shutter fired as the 30th and B notches were under the slow speed selector when the shutter was cocked, and they couldnt be photographed, You can also see the wear on the selector where the selector moves to the B position, but none past it towards B. I may open my fed 3 and see whether anything looks different to the fed 4, but I cant seem to remove the RF eyepiece - the one on the front - I dont have the right tool, but will keep trying, using a piece of rubber as a friction spanner.
Also thanks for the help with the A and B screws, i took them out but couldnt budge the shutter button, I will try that again - i am getting pretty good at dismantling the camera now.
Thanks again for your help
Will keep you posted
Nathan
I was reading your other posts about wobbling - the whole selector thing seems quite loose, when you lift the selector the whole plate with the slots sometimes lifts up a bit - is that normal - maybe will have to see what the fed 3 tells me about that.
Thanks for the info - The slow speeds work on all but the 30th I will check to see if anything is fouling the selector tomorrow - BTW- the picture might be deceiving - the selector does move beyond where it is in the second photo - I had to take the pic with the shutter fired as the 30th and B notches were under the slow speed selector when the shutter was cocked, and they couldnt be photographed, You can also see the wear on the selector where the selector moves to the B position, but none past it towards B. I may open my fed 3 and see whether anything looks different to the fed 4, but I cant seem to remove the RF eyepiece - the one on the front - I dont have the right tool, but will keep trying, using a piece of rubber as a friction spanner.
Also thanks for the help with the A and B screws, i took them out but couldnt budge the shutter button, I will try that again - i am getting pretty good at dismantling the camera now.
Thanks again for your help
Will keep you posted
Nathan
I was reading your other posts about wobbling - the whole selector thing seems quite loose, when you lift the selector the whole plate with the slots sometimes lifts up a bit - is that normal - maybe will have to see what the fed 3 tells me about that.
wolves3012
Veteran
I'd expect a little play in the whole thing, the selectors can be a bit wobbly when lifted. The disk underneath shouldn't have a great deal of play but I'd expect a touch.tunznath said:
If you're stuck on the Fed 3 RF window, yes they can be tight! One way to help is a pencil blowtorch, run it around the bezel very quickly for a couple of seconds or so, then try - needless to say it'll be pretty hot so just slacken a touch and leave to cool. Heat tends to break the corrosion and also makes it expand to a looser fit. Don't keep the flame still at any time when you do this! You could also probably use a domestic iron, with some care. The idea is to get the bezel hot without heating anything else.
tunznath
Established
Hi
Thanks for that will give it a try tomorrow
Nathan
Thanks for that will give it a try tomorrow
Nathan
Spyderman
Well-known
Regarding removal of the rewind selector (around shutter release) I'd vote "A" 
At least that's what you have to unscrew on FED-2 to pull out the shutter release button and the shafts underneath. But from FED-2 I'm not familiar with any other screw in place of "B"...
But the central part is not threaded. After you remove all screws necessary you should be able to lift it up.
Problem with your 1/30 might be that the whole slow-speeds clockwork is too low. You might need to add some thin washers under it to raise it a bit...
PS: removing the shutter crate is very different form Zorki 4: the crate is screwed right into the front half of body. (On Zorki 4 it's kind of independent and you can remove the body shell leaving shutter crate intact)
At least that's what you have to unscrew on FED-2 to pull out the shutter release button and the shafts underneath. But from FED-2 I'm not familiar with any other screw in place of "B"... But the central part is not threaded. After you remove all screws necessary you should be able to lift it up.
Problem with your 1/30 might be that the whole slow-speeds clockwork is too low. You might need to add some thin washers under it to raise it a bit...
PS: removing the shutter crate is very different form Zorki 4: the crate is screwed right into the front half of body. (On Zorki 4 it's kind of independent and you can remove the body shell leaving shutter crate intact)
tunznath
Established
Thanks all I tried taking out both screws and it still doesnt come out - maybe this camera just wants to work like this - and doesnt want to be fixed.
Nathan
Nathan