Film advance question

[koniczech]

I got my first roll back from CVS after an hour wait (I love their developing time, as opposed to a week at a local camera shop) and the entire roll came back the translucent brown. First I thought... they must have developed it wrong. Then I thought, the metering was off the whole time (see "A 'mercury free' replacement battery" thread), but now I'm thinking that the film was loaded incorrectly so that every shot was taken on the beginning of the first frame.

Does this sound familiar? The tip of the whole roll of 36 has a really muddied blue-brown-almost black exposure, and the rest is empty. When I put the developed roll into my Yashica GSN and tried to advance, it doesn't go over to the second spool, and just kinda stops wrapping around the first spool.

I can't tell if I have loaded it right, and I would imagine that this is something I'm just not doing right.

Thanks in advance.
koniczech

 

[ZeissFan]

Get a fresh roll and load the camera. After closing the back, tack up the slack by turning the rewind crank (in the correct direction, which should be clockwise).

Advance the film and release the shutter. You might want to set the camera to flash and put on a lens cap, if you want to reuse the film.

The rewind crank should turn as you advance the film. go through about six or seven frames.

If the rewind crank never moves, then the film isn't advancing or wasn't loaded correctly. If the rewind crank moves, then it's possible that the shutter isn't releasing.

You can check that by rewinding the film, setting the shutter to automatic, opening the back and then tensioning and releasing the shutter while peering through the back. Works best if you point it toward a light or open window (not the sun).

Finally, are you loading the film correctly? You have to push the tip of the film into the takeup spool and the small notch should catch on the film's sprocket cutout.

 

[koniczech]

Thanks for the advice.

I am almost certain that the rewind spool is spinning. The shutter is also fine (I assume) because when there is no film and I shoot with the back open, I can see right through. As for the uptake, I have never been too sure about how it is advancing. When I tried with the back open, it just wraps around the spool on the left of the two. It seems that the one on the right isn't doing anything. Is that for when the left spool gets full?

Also, I looked at the manual and everything seemed to be in order. Since I have old film of my brother's I'll probably just shoot another roll, check everything and get it developed again.

 

[sig]

Both spools on the right should spin, at least on my GS. They turn towards each other.

 

[koniczech]

Both spools are spinning, to answer that.

Another 'event' of note: When I was rewinding, I felt a little bit of resistance after I pushed the bottom release button, then it felt extremely smooth-winding. I had no idea how to tell when I get it all back into the roll, so i wound for maybe 10 minutes.

Maybe that was too much hahaha. But seriously, how much resistance should I feel? It was only for about one full-turn of the rewind knob.

 

[oftheherd]

OK, lets get to basics. Load the film in the camera so the film is in the load chamber, which is where the rewind crank is, usually on the left of the camera as you look at it from the back. Pull the rewind crank up to insert the film cartridge, then put it in and be sure it is seated inside the film canister. Pull the film out of the cartridge, across the film plane, to the take up spool. Ensure the film is properly going even across the film plane, the put the leader into the film takeup spool. It needs to fit on the teeth before the takeup spool on its way to the takeup spool. Put the leader into one of the slots of the takeup spool and actuate the wind crank. The film should be pulled into the takeup spool and across the film plane, across the teeth before the takeup spool. Be sure the teeth are turning. (In fact, you can check that is happening without film in the camera)Crank enough to be sure the take up spool has gripped the film. Close the back and turn the rewind crank until you feel tension. Now wind the film on to the start mark, and watch to ensure the rewind crank is moving. Every time you wind the film on, be sure the rewind crank is turning.

You should then have no doubt the film is winding on and you are taking photos. You will be if the shutter and aperture are working correctly. BTW, if I missed anything, someone will jump in and add it.

I don't mean to make you look foolish, but you seem unfamiliar with loadking film cameras. Good luck.

 

[koniczech]

Thanks for the complete instructions. Even though I (think) that I did all this, it might still help someone in the future. My single question for this is; When the film is engaged by the brackets for the first time, and when you close the back door, is it only the oddly-shaped tip of the film that should be resting on the advance hooks? I wasn't sure if they should be pushed back, or if this detail even matters when dealing with the roll.

Thanks again!
koniczech

 

[oftheherd]

You are using terms that I don't understand completely. You ask if the film leader should be engaged by the brackets. If you mean the slots, tangs, arms, or whatever, on the takeup spool, that hold the leader to the spool, then yes. I have only seen a few cameras that do not attach to the take up spool. I think they were P&S. The teeth at the end of the film plane both align the film, and help it move forward. I suspect the film would be pulled forward even if the film weren't attached to the spool, but it might get stuck somewhere inside the spool chamber and cause the film to bunch up and get stuck. So, the film leader must be attached to the film spool, which also turns and wraps the film around it. As an aside, some spools pull the film over them, keeping the same curl to the film, some pull the film under, putting a reverse curl on the film.

When you mentione closing the door you mention the film being on the advance hooks. Are you still talking about the slots or tangs, or whatever holds the film to the spool? If so, the yes. But it really sounds like something else since you mention pusing them back. All this may be my unfamiliarity with the Yashica. I haven't looked at one for a very long time.

 

[koniczech]

Sorry about the confusion. What I was talking about was how on every roll of film (to my knowledge), the beginning of the roll has that kind of curved cut part so there is only one row of brackets. Does this curved-cut part merely rest on the spool with hooks, or does the curved-cut part need to be advanced before closing the camera? i.e. does letting it just touch the hooks allow for enough pull once you start advancing?

 

[xwhatsit]

Sorry about the confusion. What I was talking about was how on every roll of film (to my knowledge), the beginning of the roll has that kind of curved cut part so there is only one row of brackets. Does this curved-cut part merely rest on the spool with hooks, or does the curved-cut part need to be advanced before closing the camera? i.e. does letting it just touch the hooks allow for enough pull once you start advancing?

I think I get what you mean -- there's no need to advance the film any further once you've just poked the leader through that little slot and got the sprockets engaging the sprocket holes on the film. Because the leader is narrow, only the bottom sprocket holes will be engaged, but this is enough -- after you close the door, you take two `dummy shots' until the film counter gets to `1'. If you don't notice the rewind lever rotating around when you take the dummy shots, the film probably came off the sprockets after you closed the door, so you need to open it up and try loading the film again.

I found the GSN pretty easy to load, even for a rank beginner like myself, much easier than the Lynx 1000 for some reason. You shouldn't need to rewind for 10 minutes. There's not a whole lot of tension when rewinding (provided you remembered to press the advance disengage button on the bottom first!) - in fact, if you hold your ear up to the back door, you should hear a little `click' as the leader pops out of the take-up spool. Then you just do a few more winds, you might feel another click as the bent part of the film leader (bent because it's poked into the takeup spool and gets bent backwards) gets wound into the film cartridge.

You might want to check out the GSN manual, they have a brief section on loading the camera: http://www.butkus.org/chinon/yashica/yashica_electro_35_gsn/yashica_electro_35_gsn.htm

It's interesting you bring this up in light of potential battery/shutter problems (the over/under lights not coming on unless you've just opened the film door for instance, pretty strange!). Take a look at the negs -- are they really all unexposed, no marks at all? Can you see frame lines at all? Remember 35mm film has no `frames' per se, it's just a single long narrow piece of film, it's up to the camera where it puts the photos, how much room it puts inbetween shots etc. The tip (do you mean the half-width leader part?) you say was a different colour -- would this be the part that you expose to light when you load the camera? At least the film can then be ruled out I suppose, as it's responding to light.

 

[koniczech]

I think I may have found the solution to my problem.

Here is a manual that I found, with pictures for loading the GSN: http://www.scribd.com/doc/456086/Yashica-Electro-35-GSN-Manual

On page -7- there is a picture that shows the leader (the oddly cut end) going past the left bracketed winder, and wrapping around the right, also bracketed take up spooler. As of three minutes ago, I had it just around the left spool, and after cocking-firing-cocking-firing, the rewind knob had spun once, when it should have spun twice. It also became loose, so I opened the door (despite warnings [i want to figure this out!]) and the film was just a few inches too pulled out of the roll, but not actually spooling onto anything. From this, I gather that the oddly-cut leader must wrap around something else (which is probably why the right-bracketed-spooler is there.

I suppose I just never noticed that the rewind knob wasn't spinning after the first two cocking-firing sequences.

And to answer your question about the developing, xwhatsit, It was completely devoid of exposure. I'm talking, no dust, no partial frame exposing, no nothing. Just that first little bit, which I assume is 36 exposures overlaid on top of one another.

For now, I will try to wrap the leader onto the second (right side) spooler and see if that gets things going, so to speak.

koniczech

 

[sig]

As others have pointed out. Make sure the rewind lever is turning when you advance the film. Also when you hit 36 exposures, do try to take more pictures, in most cases you can make 38-39 exposures on a 36 film.

And a big thanks, this made me pick up my GS, will fill it with film now and take some pictures (ok after i have done the dishes, my wife told me)

 

[xwhatsit]

For now, I will try to wrap the leader onto the second (right side) spooler and see if that gets things going, so to speak.

My apologies if you're already doing this, but you are poking the leader through the little slot in the centre of the right-side spooler? I went back and re-read the above posts and am I correct in thinking all you were doing was pulling the leader out of the cartridge and placing it on the sprocket holes?

 

[Frontman]

Your problem is probably what everyone suspects, the film wasn't engaged by the transport spool. so all 36 of your shots were on a single frame. You felt a moment of resistance when you were winding as the film pulled itself past the spool, and then it became easier because there was actually no film to rewind (most of it was still in the film cartridge).

I did the same thing myelf in a new camera which I was unfamiliar with. Now when I load a camera, I give it a wind and half with the back door open to make sure that the film is winding on the take-up spool, and engaged by the transport spool's teeth. Once the door is closed, I wind and shoot until the counter moves to "1" while keeping a finger on the rewind knob. If the rewind knob turns while I'm advancing the film, I know that the camera is loaded properly.

Better luck next time.

 

[koniczech]

So I took the leader and pushed it onto the right spool. Finally, the rewind knob is spinning and there is significantly more tension in each 'reload'. Thanks everyone. Hopefully everything else goes well later in the process... (light meter, rewinding, CVS, life....)

I feel like a fool now haha

sincerely
koniczech

 

[btgc]

You are not first and certainly not last one on the planet, who loaded camera wrong way. This is good lesson, and you got it with a test roll not something important. After this happened to me, I remember to watch rewind knob when advancing.