Film and vegetarianism

[taskoni]

Stephen - you could always switch to digital. Though I wonder how much of the waste product of the digital camera manufacturing process would effect animals indirectly...

Make sure that the leather is synthetic as the oil inside your camera, throw away the fancy leather case.

 

[taskoni]

?... I am sensitive to these things, and similar to the Kalahari bushman (above), I do utter a mental "sorry" when putting a fresh roll of film in my camera.



http://www.vincentfrazzettaphotography.com

so the mental sorry doesn't work on meatballs for example? So how this veggy thing work? I see you as consumer in both ways - film or meat...

 

[sig]

If you feel bad about using film due to the dead animals in just stop using film. It is (pardon the pun) dead easy. Everybody have standards they follow and everybody will adjust the standards because it suits themselves (or in many cases because they can not afford to live when following their standards).

So you just have to set up your passion (film) vs your moral (killing animals is bad).

My opinion is that it is not wrong, but then again I am not an vegetarian/vegan.

 

[rover]

Ok folks, I am off to the supermarket. Behave.

 

[Crazy Fedya]

Gelatin production is a by-product of meat manufacturing. I don't think anyone would slaughter animals just to produce gelatin. I guess, manufacturing film is kind of a version of nothing goes to waste. I am glad, in a way, that everything is used, even though modern animal farming makes me sad. But I still think I would prefer bones to be used for gelatin manufacturing then just thrown away.

 

[marcr1230]

Vegans can be vegans without tying themselves into philosophical knots. This is especially true if the reasons for abstaining from animal products are health related. As a vegan for 6 months now, I have not considered giving up film - that would not contribute to by health. As a side note - all strict vegans, please strip the leather off your cameras and the hide glue from optics

Veganism and vegetarianism certainly has some positive impact on the capacity of the earth to support a growing population, and for sure one person's going this way or that will not make any measurable impact. small choices and numbers do add up though, I believe in the USA per capita meat consumption is down year over year. In short - if you are a philosophical purist about this, you are going to have very limited options in life, animal products are everywhere.

 

[Nikon Bob]

It is a moral question that only the OP can answer for himself. Someone said earlier that life is full of compromises/grey areas. Nobody can tell you what to do in these instances and you will have to decide what you can or can't live with. Sorry, not much help I am afraid.

Bob

 

[paulfish4570]

this is an interesting thread.

 

[semordnilap]

I think it's a difficult question... Nearly everything we do in western industrialized society relies on the exploitation of resources, whether animal or, as Roger mentions, petroleum products and other less renewable ones–which are of course intrinsic to modern agriculture and farming as well.

{tangent} Industrialized farming is a huge problem, but I do agree with Gavin about plants being just as alive; I personally consider it high human arrogance to assume that animals are more 'valuable' morally because they are physiologically more like us. Industrial animal farming's equivalent in plants is large mono-culture annual plantings: corn, wheat, etc., rather than perennial or re-seeding varieties. But could humanity feed itself without them? Or kill itself by their use? I don't know... {/end tangent}

I personally think that there is no perfect moral place, that we must compromise somewhere, whether we realize it or not, but of course it is better to realize and understand exactly what we are doing and what exactly those choices are that we are making. I don't think digital is any better, with minerals sourced from who-knows-where, including the Congo. Since gelatin is a by-product of an already large scale animal production system, and those bones would be going to waste otherwise, I can see the reasoning in a vegan living with film, with no more than minor discomfort.

 

[raytoei@gmail.com]

in asia, restaurants are banning the use of shark's fins in soup because it is cruel and only the fins are eaten, the rest of the shark is thrown overboard.

right now i am going to use the same advice given to me with the analogy of the shark's fins: eat more shark's fin now cos in future there won't be any more shark. shoot more film now coz in future, there won't be anymore film.

(not for the humor-impaired)

 

[Jamie123]

Vegans can be vegans without tying themselves into philosophical knots. This is especially true if the reasons for abstaining from animal products are health related. As a vegan for 6 months now, I have not considered giving up film - that would not contribute to by health. As a side note - all strict vegans, please strip the leather off your cameras and the hide glue from optics

Veganism and vegetarianism certainly has some positive impact on the capacity of the earth to support a growing population, and for sure one person's going this way or that will not make any measurable impact. small choices and numbers do add up though, I believe in the USA per capita meat consumption is down year over year. In short - if you are a philosophical purist about this, you are going to have very limited options in life, animal products are everywhere.

It's a bit off topic but I'm really curious about this new trend (I think mainly in the US) that sees Veganism as a healthy lifestyle choice. I mean I'm sure you can live a healthy Vegan lifestyle but there's no medical reason why eating food that contains animal products (and I'm not even talknig about meat) is unhealthy.

I have no problem with Veganism and respect anyone who chooses to to do that (especially if it's out of ethical reasons) but I am puzzled by the health argument. It just seems to be part of some kind of purity fetish. (Like drinking Fiji water because it's from a pretty tropical island, nevermind the fact that it's close to where the french did all their nuclear tests )

 

[v3cron]

It's a bit off topic but I'm really curious about this new trend (I think mainly in the US) that sees Veganism as a healthy lifestyle choice. I mean I'm sure you can live a healthy Vegan lifestyle but there's no medical reason why eating food that contains animal products (and I'm not even talknig about meat) is unhealthy.

I have no problem with Veganism and respect anyone who chooses to to do that (especially if it's out of ethical reasons) but I am puzzled by the health argument. It just seems to be part of some kind of purity fetish. (Like drinking Fiji water because it's from a pretty tropical island, nevermind the fact that it's close to where the french did all their nuclear tests )

The health argument is well-researched, peer-reviewed, and totally solid. Saying animal products are healthy is an advertising strategy, not medical science.

 

[paulfish4570]

are there any primitive vegan/vegetarien peoples/tribes? have there ever been any?

 

[nighstar]

I think it's a difficult question... Nearly everything we do in western industrialized society relies on the exploitation of resources, whether animal or, as Roger mentions, petroleum products and other less renewable ones–which are of course intrinsic to modern agriculture and farming as well.

{tangent} Industrialized farming is a huge problem, but I do agree with Gavin about plants being just as alive; I personally consider it high human arrogance to assume that animals are more 'valuable' morally because they are physiologically more like us. Industrial animal farming's equivalent in plants is large mono-culture annual plantings: corn, wheat, etc., rather than perennial or re-seeding varieties. But could humanity feed itself without them? Or kill itself by their use? I don't know... {/end tangent}

I personally think that there is no perfect moral place, that we must compromise somewhere, whether we realize it or not, but of course it is better to realize and understand exactly what we are doing and what exactly those choices are that we are making. I don't think digital is any better, with minerals sourced from who-knows-where, including the Congo. Since gelatin is a by-product of an already large scale animal production system, and those bones would be going to waste otherwise, I can see the reasoning in a vegan living with film, with no more than minor discomfort.

agreed 100%. well said.

 

[jammcat]

I'm a long-time vegetarian and was a vegan for several years.

I couldn't deal with the politics of being a vegan, so I reverted to vegetarian.
A PETA member telling me that my second-hand leather jacket and boots made me a murderer was pretty much all it took to wake me up.

If you really care about using animal products, you have to be aware of the fact that there is a line that you'll have to draw, and decide for yourself what you feel right using. The more research you do the more you realize just how many every day items are made with animal products, and how avoiding them all will probably make you crazy.

If you're really concerned about contributing to the exploitation of animals by shooting film, get rid of your film cameras and stop shooting it. Otherwise, shoot expired film in a waste-not, want-not mentality (like wearing/using second hand leather products, for example).

I don't think that you'll be seeing organic, free-range gelatin based film any time soon.

If you really are concerned about shooting film from an ethical stand-point, then you should really look into just how bad film is for the environment. Kodak was one of the top polluters of the environment for years. I'm sure that the toxins that the production of film produces harms animals as well. Many of us on this forum will still shoot film into the ground though despite this.

See? You've got to know when and where to draw the line, or you'll go mad.

 

[Trius]

Some people become vegetarian because they decide they can live and eat healthily without causing suffering to other living things.

Exactly. It is quite possible to extremely healthy on a vegan diet. I don't know how to do it, but if you Google up Mike Zigomanis you will find one of the most fit persons you can imagine, and he is a vegan.

I am working towards vegetarianism both for better health and on moral grounds. There will always be compromises imposed on vegetarians and vegans by the current structure of the food industry.

 

[starless]

are there any primitive vegan/vegetarien peoples/tribes? have there ever been any?

I think Hindus don't eat meat, or at least a good portion of them.

As for the health effects - there are too many to mention. But mainly hearth diseases and colon cancers that are closely linked with meat.

In my opinion the worst thing is not even the meat itself, but the growth hormones and antibiotics that all animals are treated with. Through meat/dairy/eggs these chemicals end up in our bodies.

 

[nighstar]

are there any primitive vegan/vegetarien peoples/tribes? have there ever been any?

from Wikipedia:

The earliest records of vegetarianism as a concept and practice amongst a significant number of people concern ancient India[2] and the ancient Greek civilization in southern Italy and in Greece.[3] In both instances the diet was closely connected with the idea of nonviolence toward animals (called ahinsa in India) and was promoted by religious groups and philosophers.[4] Following the Christianization of the Roman Empire in late antiquity, vegetarianism practically disappeared from Europe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_vegetarianism

 

[Thardy]

are there any primitive vegan/vegetarien peoples/tribes? have there ever been any?

A quick google shows that there have been some indiginous vegeterian people in different parts of the world. There are people now who eat very little meat with meals.

 

[Joosep]

If you want to eat. Then not eating meat is a choice.
If you want to shoot film. Then not using gelatine is not a choice.

I see no moral question ...