Film to Computer

[paachi]

Hi Everyone,

A hardcore street and portraiture (trying to be photo journalistic) photographer, I enjoy my sojourns with a Canon 30D and lenses from 17 - 200. However, the anemic speeds and bulky glass leave me sighing for more especially for indoor portraits and evening shots. Faster apertures, sharper images, better B and W grain and good portability were the holy grails of my quest. Thanks to one Mr. Gandy I chanced upon the range finder way of photography and I think it suits my style a lot. I intend to start a kit with an Ikon (out of choice rather than as a cheaper Leica) 35/f2 Biogon, 50/f1.5 C Sonnar and 75/f2.5 VC.

My 2 questions are:

1. What do you opine about this as a startup kit?? Do you feel that a 21/25/28 might be needed??

2. I used to shoot with my Pentax ME - Super as a photographic student. After that it has been digital all the way. Not that I am averse to film but I don't think I would find the time for developing scores of rolls. So what is the work flow you guys employ to bring the images to your computer

- Develop yourself and then scan negative using a negative scanner like Nikon Cookscan 5000??
- Have the film professionally developed and scanned??
- Any other process??

Sorry for the long post but I would really appreciate you inputs as I want to take the plunge ASAP and the work flow will be a critical decision maker for me.

Best Regards,
Prashant Kumar.

 

[squirrel$$$bandit]

Personally, I'd go with the 28. I LOVE that focal length for street stuff! I've been shooting in that context with a Contax G1 / Zeiss Biogon 28mm, and with a Sigma DP1 digicam, and I would really miss those extra few degrees of field.

 

[mfogiel]

paachi
1- start with 35/2 and 50/1.5, the third lens should probably be a 28mm. The 75mm has no proper frames on the Ikon, and BTW shooting with lenses over 50mm on a RF is a PITA - get a nice film slr with a good 85-100 mm lens instead if you want that fl
2- get Nikon 5000, without it you will quickly regret the digital files
2- learn how to develop film yourself as soon as possible, for a start you can try XP2 or BW400CN, or Reala or Portra for colour.

And yes, this kit is fantastic, except that for general street shots you need something wider, but you can decide it yourself if the 35mm will prove not wide enough.

 

[Pherdinand]

i like deve'ing it myself but it is somewhat time consuming.
If' i'd shoot much more, i would go for c41 or colour slides and drop it at a lab.
They can still do it...costs almost 3 euro, though. Developing only.

 

[Quercus]

I use both bessa and ZI witha digital work flow - sometimes develop films myself sometimes lab depends on the film and whether it is BW or reversal...i never use negative colour. Then scan using a canon 9900 flat bed with adaptors the reason i went for this is that i scan large format as well but it is ok with silver fast then a bit of photoshop just for levels or colour balance. As for lenses i use a 35mm once in a while a sonnar some times for real low light but for street work i tend to have either the VC 25 or recently the 25 biogon --- I also use the VC 75 on the ZI and the inner frame lines for outer of the frame lines for 80 are just about right

This is what the 25 provides as a repo lens Barcalona

 

[Bruin]

Welcome to RFF, Prashkant!

The CV 35/1.4 is an affordable alternative to the ZM 35/2 Biogon if you need more speed. Since the ZI doesn't have 75mm framelines, I would recommend the M-Hexanon 90/2.8 or Nikkor 85/2 LTM for a short telephoto. Which wide-angle lens to get is a very personal choice. A 25 gives you a nice progression with your 35 and 50, roughly doubling the picture area as you go each step wider.

I'm all for developing your own B&W...besides being a lot cheaper, you get the negatives consistently done "your way." Scan your negatives on a cheap flatbed to make a digital contact sheet, then scan the keepers on a dedicated 35mm negative film scanner.

 

[kshapero]

My ZI and I enjoy swapping between a CV 21/4, CV35/1.7, ZM 50/1.5 and a CV 90/3.5. And also a CV 50/2. Thinking of getting a ZM 21/2.8 and a CV35/1.4. Life is good. Usually I use Costco then load the CD right to flickr and edit online.

 

[Johnmcd]

Just a thought but...

Once you add up all that gear, including a decent scanner (a must might I add or you will be disappointed in the long run) you are certainly in the market for a R-D1 or even an second hand M8. Start with one lens and grow from there - maybe just a cv 21mm that equals about 35mm after sensor crop.

It seems you are already looking at the fastest option to get your image on the screen. From the post it doesn't appear that the 'film' side of things is what is drawing you to an RF but the way that an RF takes pictures.

I eventually ended up with a R-D1 digital rangefinder after being disappointed with the quality of 35mm B/W (silver halide) scans. And that was on a Minolta Scan Multi pro.

Having said that I am on the lookout for a cheap medium format kit because the 120mm negs did scan noticeably better.

Cheers,

John

 

[mackigator]

I'd spend the money on the scanner (perhaps Nikon 5000) and start small with the RF - maybe a Bessa R3A and a 50mm Hexanon. The scanner will serve you well as you get pulled deeper into the RFF classifieds...

 

[Ronald M]

I shoot film because I want the negative. I use my D200 Nikon if I need color fast or feel lazy.

I still like my darkroom and I will scan any film that needs to go into digital world.
Minolta 5400 is the tool.

 

[charlesburd]

c41 flim is MUCH easier to scan than silver halide

c41 flim is MUCH easier to scan than silver halide

i really liked using ilford hp5+ and developed my own negs. however, when i started scanning the negs i switched to xp2 super (c41 process film) because it is compatible with digital ice processing software while all silver halide film is not compatible. digital ice eliminates much of the extremely tedious negative touch up that is required to get even a basic usable scan from silver halide films negs. the local smith's grocery store does a pretty good job of developing the xp2 super in 1 hour for $1 per 36 role. i agree with those that rate the film at iso 250 for best density neg.

i would like to try fuji neopan 400 cn (c41 film) but can't get it at a reasonable price in the states.

i am using a coolscan v but would like to get a nice dimage 5400 ii.

have fun.

 

[Avotius]

Scanners are tricky things, you really have to play with them and understand the limitations of your film and scanner to get really good scans. I shoot xp2 mostly, but recently have been shooting more Era film so I can do it up myself at home. Frankly I think the Zeiss Ikon is a good place to go from, first you have the barn, now you need a good cow, the 35 biogon is the natural choice, the 50 sonnar is interesting, I have the 50 planar, If I were you I would think twice about the 75mm lens though, 50 and 75 are kind of close together if you think it is, I dont, I use a 35 50 combo and its fine, but many people find them too close together. My advice, ZI and 35mm lens then go from there after you get those two and you shoot and feel what you need.

 

[maddoc]

If you are into "real" BW, and street photography, nothing beats gold old silver grain film. Tri-X / D-76 should do the trick (and self-developing of course)

With the recent price increase of the Zeiss Ikon, I would go for a Leica M4-P (meterless) or M6 (with meter) and a Summicron 35mm. Should be a good kit for the street ... 🙂

 

[Avotius]

I half agree with maddoc up there, I also just got an M6 TTL and a 35 summicron. But for the street I find myself consistently missing auto exposure that my bessa r2a and the zeiss ikon have. Its nice to have that micro management going on for me, so much so that I may not sell my bessa.

 

[sepiareverb]

Go with the lab develop/scan. Scanning film is tedious and time consuming, and the labs do a great job rather inexpensively. I'd investigate the minilab end of a pro lab, the chemistry & equipment is well maintained and the scans are cheaper but plenty good for most use. I get 1200x1800 pixel scans plus smaller preview scans this way from my lab. Two recent ones from a roll shot with the T2.

 

[paachi]

The ambivalence continues 🙂

The ambivalence continues 🙂

Thanks guys for the quick and lucid responses.

John, I do agree that this will push the costs toward a used M8 range but I love the film grain. I even tried simulating it in my 30D files with DxO Film Labs but could not manage a shot like some of the members here..I haven't explored the R-D1s though..can you please share your experience with it??

As for the lenses, I need the speed and 35/f2 Biogon has the character to boot. Maybe I could drop a 75mm now and go for a 21 VC (cheap..eh)..Any feedback on the color skopar at 21 for B and W??

I chose the Zeiss Ikon because it offers me a good EBL to use 90mm lenses, reasonably reliable body, AE mode (i am guessing catching street urchins at play with manual focus and manual settings would be a bitch even with the RF) and simply want to support Zeiss/VC because they build such great glasses at competitive price..I initially did checkout the R2A but the quality problems scared me away..can anyone assure me otherwise??

And finally..any primers/ websites/ guides to B and W film developing..I could use a thorough guide..

Also, I welcome all of you to have a look at my gallery..please do opine (even if these snaps are not from a RF)

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=83895&ppuser=23783

Thanks once again..this forum has been very helpful..

Best regards,
Prashant Kumar.

 

[willie_901]

1. What do you opine about this as a startup kit?? Do you feel that a 21/25/28 might be needed??

2. ... So what is the work flow you guys employ to bring the images to your compute

I think this is a fantastic startup kit. The 28 is a classic street photography focal length. I like it better than than 35mm. I use the CV 28/3.5 on my ZI M. 25 or 21 mm means you have to get rather close to the subject. I may get a 15mm just for fun some time in the future. But I won't be using it for street work.

I have my color film developed and scanned by a lab. The price is reasonable. I will rescan frames that I want to print or that were improperly exposed.

I develop and scan my B&W film. Some scanner software can automatically select frames, so obtaining low-res scans to evaluate a roll is not tedious. Then I rescan keepers manually.

I enjoy my ZI M camera and lenses. I know you will enjoy yours as well.

william

 

[mr_phillip]

Sounds like you've done your research and made some sound choices. Personally I'm not too sold on AE -- too much of a control freak I guess -- but if you're coming from a digital background it's a sensible option, and it can certainly help your speed in changing light conditions.

The 35 and 50mm lenses you've selected are peaches and I'm sure you'll love them, but I'd recommend either an 85 or 90mm over the 75 as your long lens (75 is quite close to the 50mm focal length, and a 90 would be a better match to the ZI's 85mm lines).

The CV21mm is a great little lens. Not in quite the same league as the ZM 21 or the latest Leica, but then it's nothing like their price either. You could pick one up used, see if you like that length, then maybe look into the ZM if you feel you'd like something a bit more upmarket. I've got some b&w example shots from the CV21 in my Flickr stream here.

Also, all but one roll of the b&w film shots on that Flickr stream are from trad silver films (the exception is from a test roll of XP2 Super) and I really don't have any issues at all with scanning them on an Epson V700 flatbed. I've never quite understood why people claim C41 emulsions scan better.

 

[Johnmcd]

John, I do agree that this will push the costs toward a used M8 range but I love the film grain. I even tried simulating it in my 30D files with DxO Film Labs but could not manage a shot like some of the members here..I haven't explored the R-D1s though..can you please share your experience with it??

Prashant,

I suppose I thought it an option for you as your history seemed similar to mine. I started as a kid with an OM1 and processed all my own B/W and always had a darkroom into my late twenties. Fell out of photography for some years and when digital came went through a series of P&S's which at the time cost an arm and a leg.

Ended up with a 20D which I still own, and decided to go back to film via an R3A. Fell back on the old wet processing skills and for a while enjoyed the 'grainy look' of 35mm HP5 and a scanner that struggled to deal with the traditional silver based B/W films.

I also enjoyed for a while the extra processes involved in getting it to the screen. But for me it didn't last. I'm as busy as the next guy and after years of digital ease I wanted it back. But now I was addicted to the rangefinder way.

The journey ended with an R-D1. What can I say, it looks at me each day and says, 'lets take photos'.

It's individual, somewhat flawed, has loads of personality and the images can have a special look and colour to them.

Head over to the R-D1 forum for a look. Lots of images to see.

John