Carl Zeiss LTM Finally! ~ I bought a "wartime" 1943 CZJ Sonnar T f1.5/50 in LTM

[Flat Twin]

Hello Chaps,

I finally found myself a 1943 CZJ 5cm f1.5 Sonnar. Thanks to Leica Tom for his help in identifying the lens and for his advice!

I am amazed at how light weight the lens is after my Leitz 5cm f1.5 Summarit, I guess thats alluminium for you over brass!

I have a question for the experts here! What size is the filter thread and can anybody help me out and suggest where I look for a UV skylight type filter, (I suppose the obvious place is flebay) I would like something that is in keeping with the lens... Did CZJ make them at the time and are they possible to find?!

Also, I don't have a lens cap and again don't know the size! Are the originals easy to come by (I doubt it!) or is a Russian J-3 type cap the best bet?!

Any advice is welcomed! I'll post some pics when I can!

Regards,

Simon

Thanks everyone for your info and help with this lens!

I found a website last night whilst browsing for info,
( http://www.taunusreiter.de/Cameras/Zeiss_Fakes.html )

According to this my lens looks like one of the "fake" lenses detailed so that raised my eyebrows!

Can anyone put my mind at ease looking at the pics of my lens or should I stop worrying and just shoot it?!

Simon

 

[dexdog]

I assume that the last photo has the last two numbers of the serial number blacked out! The lens has several features that look like other CZJ lenses that I have seen, such as the paired screws on the focus ring; the lower one is the aperture limiting screw. The dot as the indicator on the aperture ring usually is found on lenses made just after the end of WW2; earlier lenses in both LTM and Contx mount use a veritical line instead of the dot. This is not definitive however, just an observation that Brian Sweeney has made in the past. The engraving work looks good, the ears on the aperture ring are typical, and the rear lens barrel that sticks out of the back of the mount is black in color, not silver, which is another good sign. Have you unscrewed the lens to check if the last 6 digits of the serial number are stamped on the rear lens element? That would be one of the best ways to verify.

Should be a good lens.

 

[Flat Twin]

Hi Dexdog,

Good info, thanks, and yes I deleted the last two numbers from the serial number...

Yes I did unscrew the lens and it does have matching numbers stamped on the lens cell...

I'm sure all is fine with the lens but there is so much "fake / not fake" info out there it can be confusing. I like the signiture these lenses give but really don't know lots about them other than that. Hence all the questions!

Right now its on the front of my old M2 with APX100 loaded...!

Simon

 

[johannielscom]

Looks good, Simon! And legit as well!

I'm sure all is fine with the lens but there is so much "fake / not fake" info out there it can be confusing.

I think RFF and this thread more specifically is the only source to get close to certain when it comes to distinguishing the fakes from the real deal.


Enjoy shooting the Sonnar! When I got mine all Sonnar focus shift issues melted like snow in the sun, I have never noticed any focus shift with this lens.

Post some pictures!

 

[xoDox]

Can you post a photo of the lens here?

I was a few days off the Internet, so I missed quite a few messages in this thread. Sorry folks, I don't have a camera neither lenses in my hands now. I will post a Sonnar family portrait in a few days 😀.

Re, design of the Sonnar 13.5cm f/4 barrle, it's a straight one much closer to J-11 than to its variation with a fat middle part. I was a bit suspicious about it until I disassembled the lens and checked the serila number inside and all other small details. It's the original CZJ, I'm 100% sure. Also, I checked it yesterday and the lens is amazing, even I was surprised at its performance!

Fiirst, the promised sunny test shots with a collapsible Sonnar 5cm f/2. Instead of break wall, I did a log test and found the lens is about 20cm off focus. Shots were made wide open at a distance of 1m. Obviously, it needs calibration. However, it may be quite sharp if one leans backwards!

Here are two frames with a log test. Focus was on the front log cut.

When I leaned backwards the front log rings appeared spot on! Although I made 3 attempts to make it perfect.😡.

I used this "lean backwards 20-40cm" rule when I made a picture of my daughter. Obviously, it's not a studio portrait, but looks fine for 65 year old lens. Shot at f/2.8 from a distance of about 2 meters. There was just a touch of sharpening. The back light was quite strong and I should 've used a diffuser, but it was almost a grab photo and I didn't have much time to think about diffuser etc.

In the next message you 'll see the Sonnar 13.5cm test shots.

 

[xoDox]

I 've never used 135mm lenses on Leica, so I was not sure how 70 year old CZJ Sonnar 13.5cm f/4 would work on Leica M8 without any adjustments.

Initially, when I checked the pictures on camera I was pretty disappointed, but it was different when I opened them on computer. Amount of details that this little lens brings up is amazing.

Almost all frames were shot @f/11. First, it's a portrait of my son. This fellow didn't stay still, so the pix is not very sharp. I think it was made from a distance of about 4-5 meters.

Next, I checked how it works at a longer distance of 50-60m. Obviously the picture was scaled down for posting here and I had to apply some sharpening. Although it wasn't very strong.

Below is a cropped picture of the dude who is about to jump into the water (a central part of the pic). Here are all funny little details 😀 ... I mean the letters on his trunks. That's amazing! Just a touch of sharpening was done.

Also, I did a leaves test from a distance of 3m.

and lastly a crop of the top right corner of the previous pic.

There is some cyan fringing, but it's removable in PSP through lens correction filter. I left it as it is here.

I'm amazed at the sharpness of the long Sonnar. Also, I really like that the lens doesn't need any shimming adjustments to my M8.2 😀. Although, I have to work on its stiff focus.

I hope these few pictures satisfied some curiousity re pictorial features of Sonnar 13.5cm f/4 LTM .

 

[johannielscom]

xodox,

congrats on those shots, really nice ones! Those are great lenses you got there!

Regarding the collapsible 50/2.0 being off focus: since you live in Russia, it might at some time have been set to correspond correctly with a prewar FED rangefinder. I have a prewar FED and its lens is also approx. 20-30 cms off when used on a Leica when at close focus!

Those 135/4.0 shots are amazingly sharp! Soon as rain here stops, I'm taking mine out, its been too long anyway! 😎

 

[dexdog]

my fellow Sonnarists,

Have a look here. Make sure you sit down before clicking.

Somebody got lucky with an ultra-rare lens for a sub-bargain price!

Final price on this CZJ 13.5cm/f4 lens was $48.99. Condition of the lens might have scared people off. Still, under $50 for a CZJ lens in LTM looks like a bargain.

 

[dexdog]

I was watching that one, it sold for more than I thought it would. It definately looks like a custom re-fit, but interesting nonetheless. Let us know how it performs!

 

[johannielscom]

That is one brilliant looking lens, Tom! Congrats on finding and securing that!

Looking forward to seeing some of your fine pin-ups with it (I was in hint-mode here😉)

 

[splitimageview]

Tom, I think you mean 'knurlings.' 🙂

 

[RF_newbie]

cool lens, kinda knarly looking 🙂

 

[splitimageview]

Tom, now I want a collapsible Sonnar. I need to unsubscribe now. 🙂

 

[enasniearth]

sonnar

sonnar

tom , looks like the original focus tab was removed (you can see the cut under the new knurled lever knob ) no doubt with the number and the focus scale with small m next to 1 meter it is original zeiss .
perhaps the knurling was added when the focus tab was removed and the lever / knob was added . just a thought .

 

[heaven11]

wow ,this is the re-mount one?or the russia copy?

Heads Up: That Russian Army Of Occupation Sonnar is back again on evilbay........now being sold alone

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Carl-Zeiss-...97757455?pt=Camera_Lenses&hash=item35b6a86b0f

It should sell for way under $300, but let's see what the Sonnar collectors push the end price up to??? 😉

Tom

 

[dexdog]

Looks like a custom remount of a Contax lens. One of a batch of 600 completed April 1947, according to Hartmut Thiele's book of CZJ lenses

 

[dexdog]

recent acquisition- has really nice glass, and just a little dust. Production date of January 1943- Thiele's book of CZJ lenses notes that some of this batch of lenses were made in Leica mount. Have to load the Canon P with film and give it a test drive this weekend

 

[Membedeep]

How can you recognize originals CZJ Sonnars from Jupiter fakes?

There is a website that says all the diffrences, but according to that website, there were no original aluminium Sonnars, just brass.

And those original Sonnars were made especially in the Contax / Kiev mount, only few were in LTM.

So how can you distinguish fakes from originals? I also has a 1.5 CZJ in aluminium, so I was always sure that this is fake, so I got rid of it... Thanks!

Maybe some pictures would be nice with diffrences betwen them!

 

[johannielscom]

How can you recognize originals CZJ Sonnars from Jupiter fakes?

There is a website that says all the diffrences, but according to that website, there were no original aluminium Sonnars, just brass.

And those original Sonnars were made especially in the Contax / Kiev mount, only few were in LTM.

So how can you distinguish fakes from originals? I also has a 1.5 CZJ in aluminium, so I was always sure that this is fake, so I got rid of it... Thanks!

Maybe some pictures would be nice with diffrences betwen them!

There is no easy answer. And the long answer is in the thread!😱
Read it all and you will be an expert.

Quite enjoyable read though, so can't be too much of a burden😀

 

[Membedeep]

This is the one I have now in brass: 2/50. Serial number: 2230604

I also have one in aluminum that I'm pretty sure it is fake.

The one I used to have and I sold for 100 Euros is this one 1.5/50, serial number: 2859620