Carl Zeiss LTM Finally! ~ I bought a "wartime" 1943 CZJ Sonnar T f1.5/50 in LTM

[johannielscom]

Ha! And when buying it as a European I would have to add another 22% in VAT!

I'm sticking to my Jupiter-9 with the Zeiss block, that was factory-made to match Leica.
It's at the far right. It came with a Russian-written note from the factory saying it was effectively a 83.7mm lens. Focus throughout the range agrees with a Leica. It's a 1951 lens, early number. As a result of the (numbered) Zeiss optical block being fitted further down into a Jupiter-9 barrel, the index marks for distance and aperture don't line up.

I was real lucky to simply bump into it on eBay. Bought it in a heartbeat and love it

 

[splitimageview]

Don't know how 'authentic' this lens is, but don't really care. 🙂

Wartime red-curtain IIIc with 50/1.5 Jena Sonnar.

 

[johannielscom]

Don't know how 'authentic' this is, but don't really care. 🙂

Wartime red-curtain IIIc with 50/1.5 Jena Sonnar.

Tell ya this: that ain't no wartime Grip-Tac!

😛

Cool camera none the less! Yours? Happy shooting!

 

[splitimageview]

Heh 🙂

Yes indeed, but the authenticity of the lens is what I was referring to, Johan. 🙂 I've edited the post slightly.

 

[johannielscom]

Non-original lens:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Carl-Zeiss-...ers_Lenses&hash=item2572ef90bb#ht_4184wt_1341


The optical cell might be legit (even though the coating is very blue, typically Russian...) but the barrel shows a red dot for the aperture mark and the big 'M' for meter instead of the small Zeiss 'm'.

This lens maybe was constructed from two lenses, or maybe it still is a complete Jupiter-3 with a Zeiss beauty ring.

Warning!

 

[S.H.]

Hello,

for a long time I looked for a LTM sonnar, I just bought one some days ago (s/n 2766614) :


Leicashop has currently one too, very similar with also a big screw on the barrel, dated 1946 (?), s/n 2771298 :

See here for the listing.

I still think I got carried on a bit as it is not that cheap (370€ / USD450), I hope it will be usable. As it is a pro seller I could send it back if there is a serious problem. And German sellers tend to be reliable in my experience.

Both serials indicate 1940-42 production, but they look like early jupiters 9 (but not quite : no 'M' nor 'm', no infinity marking, font is not identical, see here). Wonder if this is wartime Zeiss Jena production, or if it is leftover lens cells in immediate postwar barrels (could still be Jena production), like dexdog says.

I never saw a jupiter/sonnar without 'm' or 'M' markings before.

When I have it, if you are interested and if I keep it, I can post shots of and with this lens...

 

[johannielscom]

Interesting it is! In my Jupiter-9 with the Zeiss optical block the aperture and infitiy marks are apart but in yours they look to be apart more than in mine, which has its optical Zeiss unit installed into a Jupiter-9 barrel in the factory (little note from the factory stating it's in fact set to 83,7mms was included).
Also, yours has a '7' engraving, which the Leicashop one and mine do not have.

I think yours is a post-war lens that was set to Leica specs (providing it turns out that focusing is correct on Leica) and was completed by not so experienced workers when it comes to engravings.

If it agrees with a Leica, by all means keep it, it's a true transition lens! Nice find!

 

[S.H.]

I did not spot the "7"! (as in the 7 errors game 😛)

Seems there are as much different barrels as lenses...

 

[S.H.]

That is what I think myself, a wartime lens cell in a ??? mystery barrel, probably postwar. You are right for the price, however if they do not sell at 800$/€ they rarely appear at all... I also scanned some Westlicht auctions for the past years: nada. And a plain J9 is 150-200€ already 😱 . So even if the price was a bit high, I am happy to have found one by a reputable seller in Europe.

I do not always mind bricks : I sometime manage to use a black postwar 18cm sonnar in Flektoscop mount (it has a removable read end in Exakta mount) on a Visoflex III. This is some serious brick-like rig 😀 . More seriously, I think brick-wise, my chrome Summicron 90 is much bigger (perhaps not heavier).

I'll post pics, I have a M8. I hope it won't disappoint me. I'll report back when I have it.

Did anyone saw lenses like this one with missing m or infinity marking?

 

[S.H.]

Hello, I received it! Front lens shows slight scratches, coating defects but not much to worry about. The aluminium barrel looked a bit corroded, but it is 60 years worth of grime, this should clean. I'll have to unearth my Nikon to show the numerals on the focusing ring , they are funky and not "Jena style" at all. Post war very likely, or wartime but from the "parts bin" of an apprentice.

Here are some boring tests shots, more or less fully open : http://postimage.org/gallery/xe33ldu/53552ba4/
FYI, I used Capture one, deactivated the accentuation and noise reduction for these tests (just did some levels). I think this lens is quite good, it can probably compare with an old Summicron at full aperture. I'll perhaps test both if I'm too bored some day.

This thing is really DIFFICULT to focus on an M8, even with a magnifier. The RF of the M8 is pushed at its limits. It will be more at home on my M3 (even my III could perhaps fare better).

 

[johannielscom]

Yup, I got lucky. I was searching for a related item but ran into this.

Gave it some thought for a few hours but then decided to pull the trigger.

I've got a nice real early Zorki yellow filter in brass rim for it and an old Voigtländer metal hood, and I'll be looking for some vintage looking front and rear caps to go with it.

Anybody got pictures of the correct caps that these lenses came with? Dex, I hope? :angel:

I might be selling a very recently acquired Jupiter-3 in Contax mount to fund it. 1953 production and with known provenance... Sigh... Can't have it all.
There's also a nice Leica IIIf case and several filters, some other knick knacks...
It'll have to go but I'll have this beaut to comfort me!

 

[johannielscom]

Original wartime lens cap by Zeiss:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Zeiss-...ltDomain_0&hash=item564b400683#ht_1058wt_1398

Price is really high though... That kinda money should get you two of those!

 

[xoDox]

😀😀
Now let's see, what will I sell to fund this...😱

Great find! Although, I doubt a bit in it's authentity since up to 1949 all ZK 50mm f/2 in LTM were collapsible and this one looks as rigid. Most likely, the original (Zeiss/Kiev) mount ZK was implanted into LTM mount based on Jupi-8. This is just a guess, a pic from aside would help. The beauty ring is fine with early "coffin" logo for KMZ. I have no doubt it's a ZK!
Cheers,
Vassily

 

[xoDox]

Also, all ZK 50mm f/2 come with a focusing lever, perhaps it's on the opposite side of your pic so we'll never see it 🙂)! Anyway, it's a part of ZK construction. I've never seen ZK from 1947, this should be a very rare find; so, please be aware of fakes! ZK lenses bring quite a premium price!
Best,
Vassily

 

[johannielscom]

Also, all ZK 50mm f/2 come with a focusing lever, perhaps it's on the opposite side of your pic so we'll never see it 🙂)! Anyway, it's a part of ZK construction. I've never seen ZK from 1947, this should be a very rare find; so, please be aware of fakes! ZK lenses bring quite a premium price!
Best,
Vassily

Hi Vassily,

Thanks for posting! It does have a focusing lever. The eBay item nr was 271045601092 and there's more pictures with it.

The number is very early, within the first 1,000. Maybe it was a rigid prototype 😀

Once the lens arrives I can have a look and see if it's a remount. Maybe there will be something that tells it.

 

[xoDox]

Hi Vassily,

Thanks for posting! It does have a focusing lever. The eBay item nr was 271045601092 and there's more pictures with it.

The number is very early, within the first 1,000. Maybe it was a rigid prototype 😀

Once the lens arrives I can have a look and see if it's a remount. Maybe there will be something that tells it.

Thanks. I checked those pictures of your ZK, it' s exactly what I said. The early ZK in Zeiss mount was implanted into Jupi-8 shell from the 50's. The original collapsible ZK 5cm f/2 in LTM are in the range of 500 USD😱!
This Socrat-fellow knows quite well what he is selling and makes a price tag accordingly. Still this is a great glass to shoot with if it doesn't need any adjustments 🙂

Vassily

 

[johannielscom]

Thank you Vassily!

Any link that you can share about the early Sonnar Krasnogorsk production data? Very interested!

I would have liked my lens to be a collapsible but now that it is a rigid lens with a focus lever I'm sure I'm going to like it. It will be living on a real early Leica II and I feel they will make a handsome couple!

I've bought a lens from Sokrat before and he indeed is knowledgeable when it comes to rare Sonnar and Zeiss items, and a trustworthy seller too. The lens is in the mail now and I am looking forward to receiving it. Will update here when it arrives!

 

[xoDox]

Hi Johan,
The best web site where you may find plenty of info and pictures is www.sovietcams.com It's in English! Check RF lenses and go down to Jupiter-8 (Zorki). Also I trust one guy (a collector) who told me that only a few LTM ZKs 5cm f/2 were rigid and all of the rigids were assembled in 1950 right before ZK became Jupiter-8. The collapsible ZK 5cm f/2 in LTM is a pretty rare glass, perhaps as rare as the original CZJ Sonnar.
Cheers,
Vassily

 

[georg16nik]

Tom, Looks like You've missed quite a few real Sonnars recently ; )

 

[S.H.]

Just got myself a new toy :

a '43 Biogon, some were produced as LTM in this batch according to Thiele.