Carl Zeiss LTM Finally! ~ I bought a "wartime" 1943 CZJ Sonnar T f1.5/50 in LTM

Carl Zeiss M39 lenses
NikonSP said:
What can you guys tell me about my lens here.
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This looks like a Post-War transition lens using mostly original parts. Look for shiny aluminum finish in the focus mount when you unscrew the optics module. One little Detail: both of my wartime Sonnars have a black line for the aperture index rather than a "dot". My ZK Sonnar and post-war "transition" lens have dots.
 
I can't help but wonder, if the Jupiter-9 is in fact not at all compatible with a Leica LTM camera, how about the CZJ 85/2.0? Is the helical really radically differently threaded so that it focuses correctly throughout the range?

Not too long ago I saw a US member sell a Jupiter-9 here, one that Kim Coxon brought into Leica LTM specs. So apparently it can be done, but what would it take?
 
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Someone, somewhere stated, that if you modify the J-9 you can get it either focus correctly up close, OR infinity.

But it would be got to hear from Mr. Sweeney ;)
 
dexdog said:
I will look up the serial number in Thiele's book after I return home, if no one beats me to it. Have you ever unscrewed the front of the lens to check if the rear lens group is stamped with the last six digits of the serial number? This is probably the best single indication of the lens origin. The engraving of the beauty ring and lens barrel looks a bit odd, but this is not definative, of course. One good sign is that the lens has the two screws on the focus ring characteristic of war-time and immediate post-war CZJ lenses (one is used to hold the focus ring in place, the other limits travel of the aperture/iris) - the ZK lenses also have these two screws. One thing that does stand out is the silver sleeve around the rear lens element; this is usually black in color. The silver sleeve is usually found on what Brian Sweeney calls a "transition" lens.

Maybe Brian will check in later.

I see that buzzardkid has already provided serial numbers. That was quick!
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Here I took the lens apart. I don't see the six digits. I have taken pictures of the marks I see in the lens. I am guesing it is a transition lens made from wartime parts. I bought the lens with a IIIc (SN:404094) in 1995, from Super Save Camera. I still have the sales slip somewhere. Not gond of the performance of the Sonnar I found a 50mm Summitar to replace it. I was going to sell the Sonnar, Seems like it is a cult classic lens so I have decided to keep it. Not having a scanner anymoreI cannot show you any photos from it. I have to dig out the negatives from storage or go out and shoot more photos. Thanks for all of your help.
http://www.qsl.net/nh7fe/sonnar/DSCN6888.JPG
http://www.qsl.net/nh7fe/sonnar/DSCN6889.JPG
http://www.qsl.net/nh7fe/sonnar/DSCN6891.JPG
 
NikonSP said:
Here I took the lens apart. I don't see the six digits. I have taken pictures of the marks I see in the lens. I am guesing it is a transition lens made from wartime parts. I bought the lens with a IIIc (SN:404094) in 1995, from Super Save Camera. I still have the sales slip somewhere. Not gond of the performance of the Sonnar I found a 50mm Summitar to replace it. I was going to sell the Sonnar, Seems like it is a cult classic lens so I have decided to keep it. Not having a scanner anymoreI cannot show you any photos from it. I have to dig out the negatives from storage or go out and shoot more photos. Thanks for all of your help.
http://www.qsl.net/nh7fe/sonnar/DSCN6888.JPG
http://www.qsl.net/nh7fe/sonnar/DSCN6889.JPG
http://www.qsl.net/nh7fe/sonnar/DSCN6891.JPG
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Better hang on to it then, that might very well be an original combo! Leica started post-war production of the IIIc in 1946 with serial number 400000.

Thanks for the pictures, I've never seen the focusing housing disassembled, only the optical block taken out. Interesting!

Glad I could help.
 
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Carl Zeiss Sonnar 85mm 2.0: cap & filter size?

Carl Zeiss Sonnar 85mm 2.0: cap & filter size?

Hi,

I'm looking to receive a 1951 ZK 85/2.0 with true Sonnar elements in it shortly.

Front and rear cap (as well as box and original lens passport!) are included, but since the lens is in the mail, I cannot measure lens cap or filter size.

Anybody got a clue?

I'd like to find a CZJ lens cap and a fitting Skylight filter for it!
 
Just taking a guess but the Nikkor 85/2 has a 48mm filter ring. Since the Nikkor was modeled after the Zeiss it might be a starting point.

buzzardkid said:
Hi,

I'm looking to receive a 1951 ZK 85/2.0 with true Sonnar elements in it shortly.

Front and rear cap (as well as box and original lens passport!) are included, but since the lens is in the mail, I cannot measure lens cap or filter size.

Anybody got a clue?

I'd like to find a CZJ lens cap and a fitting Skylight filter for it!
Click to expand...
 
buzzardkid said:
Hi,

I'm looking to receive a 1951 ZK 85/2.0 with true Sonnar elements in it shortly.

Front and rear cap (as well as box and original lens passport!) are included, but since the lens is in the mail, I cannot measure lens cap or filter size.

Anybody got a clue?

I'd like to find a CZJ lens cap and a fitting Skylight filter for it!
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The CZJ 8.5cm/2 lenses accept 49mm filters, and 51mm lens caps. I assume that the ZKs will use the same filters/caps as the Zeiss products. I have a 285 series 8.5/2 lens in LTM, and the above prescription works for my lens.
 
Used to have a ZK 85/2 and what dexdog says is correct. For most practical purposes it looked like a Jupiter 9, with longer min. focus.
 
Thanks guys!

It will arrive with a rather bland chrome cap, no print or engraving. I was considering getting myself an earlier CZJ Sonnar cap for it. Since it has a Sonnar optical block, that's legit, right? ;)

I'm one happy puppy about this one, the passport says it was collimated to 83,7mm (effectively, that is a Jupiter-9 corrected for Leica LTM) and it looks unused! Jupiter-9 serial puts it early 1951, but the Sonnar optical block is marked 840054. I'm assuming this was a Sonnar optical block that was put into a Jupiter-9 barrel and corrected to make it focus.

Gonna be only a few more days before it arrives, I reckon!
 
The taper of the German 85/2 Sonnar is not the same as the J-9, would not fit into an LTM J-9 focus mount. I tried for a friend, he had a German wartime 85/2 Sonnar optics block and a 1958 J-9 LTM. So- yours is probably made with German parts.
 
buzzardkid said:
Thanks guys!

Jupiter-9 serial puts it early 1951, but the Sonnar optical block is marked 840054. I'm assuming this was a Sonnar optical block that was put into a Jupiter-9 barrel and corrected to make it focus.
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buzzardkid, I bet that you will be pleased with the 1951 J-9. I used to own a 1951 J-9 in Kiev mount, and it was every bit as good as my coated CZJ version in Contax RF mount from 1944. My J-9 had a 284 series CZJ optical block underneath the aluminum USSR barrel. I ended up selling the lens because the fit and finish of the CZJ lens was much better. I probably shoulda kept the Jupiter, though- a very good performer. Post some pics after you get the J-9.
 
The lens seems to be a good find, Johan. Let me know what you think about its performance when you get the lens and use it.
 
sonnar 85 f2

sonnar 85 f2

i had a lens similiar to the ebay one - it was chrome on brass construction , in the ad this appears the same . the 85 f2 sonnar is a rare beast - most were aluminum barrel , if the ebay one was chrome on brass the price is justified . mine was very early number however early 1946 delivery . think a prototype sold postwar for ready cash . i will look for my pictures of it . it had no depth of feild scale only an index focus mark with distances in meters .
 
This is it:

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I'm thinking this may have been built for a Russian citizen owning a Leica, it would not make any sense setting this lens to Leica specs and subsequently using it on a FED or Zorki. Or maybe it was intended for export.

The seller in his ad said he has a whole lot of them, but this was the only one with a Zeiss marked optical unit.
 

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JB-Dancer said:
buzzardkid said:
I'm one happy puppy about this one, the passport says it was collimated to 83,7mm (effectively, that is a Jupiter-9 corrected for Leica LTM) and it looks unused! Jupiter-9 serial puts it early 1951, but the Sonnar optical block is marked 840054. I'm assuming this was a Sonnar optical block that was put into a Jupiter-9 barrel and corrected to make it focus.
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Johan,
Thiele lists KARTE 9346/Sonnar/8,5cm f2/1000 lenses for CONTAX/Serial Nos. 2839301 to 2840300/completed 17.12.45
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JB,

thank you for that! I have the Thiele book myself but somehow it had not occured to me to look the number up in it :eek:

I'm hoping this living piece of history is indeed alive and kicking when it comes to shooting it. The 50/1.5 Sonnar I have is near perfect on any Leica since it was optimized for Leica by the factory. Sonnar focus shift is negligible and I'm hoping for similar behaviour of the 85/2.0.

Once it arrives I will take it out to shoot it, on a regular basis.
 
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