xoDox
Member
Johan, it was quite an interesting lens that you put on sale and I barely resisted to instant Sonnar GAS attack when I saw it!
I've never seen a J-9 with the minimum focus distance of 1.8m which is a typical ZK thing and war time CZJ Sonnar 8cm f/2. Typically J-9 MFD is 1.15m. Perhaps Krasnogorsk had some leftovers from ZK production and despite its move to J-9 with recalculated optics they used some Zeiss and ZK parts for the first batch of J-9!!! This one is truly a rare find and transition lens in between CZJ Sonnar optics, ZK barrel and common J-9.
Actually, this lens has almost nothing in common with J-9 besides a collar with J-9 name the rest is Zeiss and ZK. Usually the situation with the authentic Sonnars and ZKs is upside down
Vassily
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
Vassily,
I did not know all this and had I known it, I would have upped the price and included it in the description of the lens!
Anyway, I sold it to a fellow member whom I greatly admire for his portraiture with (longer) lenses and who will put the lens to good use, I'm confident! So in fact we will likely all profit from him using it by viewing his portraits. I wasn't doing the lens justice, did not use it enough!
Now, I still have the ZK Sonnar 2.0/50mm for sale, in case your GAS returns!
I did not know all this and had I known it, I would have upped the price and included it in the description of the lens!
Anyway, I sold it to a fellow member whom I greatly admire for his portraiture with (longer) lenses and who will put the lens to good use, I'm confident! So in fact we will likely all profit from him using it by viewing his portraits. I wasn't doing the lens justice, did not use it enough!
Now, I still have the ZK Sonnar 2.0/50mm for sale, in case your GAS returns!
raid
Dad Photographer
Johan,
You said that a true ZK must be collapsible.
Is this a fact?
You said that a true ZK must be collapsible.
Is this a fact?
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
According to an earlier post in this thread made by Vassily, a lens as early as 1947 should be a collapsible lens indeed, Raid!
But maybe Vassily can explain this more, he knows more than I do...
But maybe Vassily can explain this more, he knows more than I do...
john neal
fallor ergo sum
I think I have shared shots of my 50mm Sonnar early in this thread - here are a couple actually taken with in, on my Nex5n - this is definitely a keeper!
On the first shot, if I enlarge the original sufficiently, I can see the waves reflected in the windows of the houses on the seafront - not too shabby for an old lens! Second shot is wide open at 125 asa
On the first shot, if I enlarge the original sufficiently, I can see the waves reflected in the windows of the houses on the seafront - not too shabby for an old lens! Second shot is wide open at 125 asa
Jacques M.
Established
Hello,
My first post.
It's me who had the lens. A good one, even if I had to dismount it to clean the helicoïd full of dry grease.
But I could not reach the internal barrel to verify the Zeiss number. Just the number on the focus mechanism: 1451.
Of course, very happy...
Regards. Jacques.
raid
Dad Photographer
The ZK may have a collectablity factor attached to it.
There are few genuine ZK's around.
There are few genuine ZK's around.
menos
Veteran
Vassily,
I did not know all this and had I known it, I would have upped the price and included it in the description of the lens!
Anyway, I sold it to a fellow member whom I greatly admire for his portraiture with (longer) lenses and who will put the lens to good use, I'm confident! So in fact we will likely all profit from him using it by viewing his portraits. I wasn't doing the lens justice, did not use it enough!
Now, I still have the ZK Sonnar 2.0/50mm for sale, in case your GAS returns!
Hey Johan, that's too kind words ;-)
The lens arrived and I am extremely exited to use it!
Now the time starts for me, to investigate into the history of this lens and Russian and German Sonnar lenses in general - you may have very well placed a bug here ;-)
I do absolutely love Sonnar lenses, especially the Japanese ones so far. I hope to extend this more into Russian and German wartime lenses.
Your lens looks to have absolutely beautiful glass indeed!
I didn't have a chance yet, to shoot with it - here are a few first drive by shots @ ƒ2, as I couldn't wait for the time, to try it out:
See the moire on the textile of the baby push cart - that's the old Sonnar out resolving the M9 sensor wide open, as shot from a moving car - I am in awe for that old glass sometimes!
I could not test the lens thoroughly, but first handling indicates, it doesn't fully reach infinity wide open (to be expected as a long Sonnar and as of it's very good performance in close to medium range).
It also seems to mis-focus a little at closest distance 1.8m (behind the subject), but I have to recheck my RF settings, as that is overdue.
From what I see, none of this is something a good fine calibration could not fix.
I am really looking forward to see this lens on the Monochrom.
The wartime Sonnar virus is in full effect now ;-)
Thanks again to everybody here sharing so much information on these lenses on RFF - it is absolutely enlightening to read through all these threads (some serious Sonnar addicts around here - hehe)!
Jacques M.
Established
Hello,
A question about 1.5/5cm LTM Sonnars.
I have a wartime one with a 3/4 turn for the focus ring.
My other ones (ZK, and two Jupiter-Sonnar) have a 1/2 turn for the same ring.
I have just bought another wartime Sonnar with a 1/2 turn too (not yet here).
So, my question: is there a rule? It is right to say that original LTM Sonnars are rare, so it can be difficult to know...
One could think original ones have 3/4 turn, and converted 1/2...
Merci. Jacques.
A question about 1.5/5cm LTM Sonnars.
I have a wartime one with a 3/4 turn for the focus ring.
My other ones (ZK, and two Jupiter-Sonnar) have a 1/2 turn for the same ring.
I have just bought another wartime Sonnar with a 1/2 turn too (not yet here).
So, my question: is there a rule? It is right to say that original LTM Sonnars are rare, so it can be difficult to know...
One could think original ones have 3/4 turn, and converted 1/2...
Merci. Jacques.
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
self portrait.
3K Sonnar Krasnogorsk (1947) 2.0/50mm on a Leica II. Agfa APX100 in Rodinal 1:100. This was wide open at 1/20th
20130209-35AgfaAPX100-3687 by johanniels.com, on Flickr
3K Sonnar Krasnogorsk (1947) 2.0/50mm on a Leica II. Agfa APX100 in Rodinal 1:100. This was wide open at 1/20th
20130209-35AgfaAPX100-3687 by johanniels.com, on Flickr
Jacques M.
Established
Johan,
It was a great idea to keep it!
Amitiés. Jacques.
It was a great idea to keep it!
Amitiés. Jacques.
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
Thank you Jacques!
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
Hi all,
over the last few months I have read two rumors/assumptions over early Russian Sonnars that I am looking to have corroborated from fellow members:
1) Lenses starting with a serial number '000' often were prototype lenses. Factory engineers assigned the '000' serial numbers to non-standard, non-production lenses.
2) Lenses marked '3K' and '1947' all were collapsible lenses. The rigid '3K' Zonnar Krasnogorsk lenses were made from 1947 onwards.
Also, a question: were the '3K' lenses from 1948 fitted with Zeiss optical blocks, did they have a Zeiss serial number stamped into the rear element collar?, Can anyone show a picture of such a '3K' 1948 rear collar and other numbers scratched into the lens internals by Soviet engineers?
I'm trying to assess whether my rigid barrel '3K' from 1947, serial N000918 can be genuine, even in the absence of Zeiss serial numbers in the rear-element collar.
over the last few months I have read two rumors/assumptions over early Russian Sonnars that I am looking to have corroborated from fellow members:
1) Lenses starting with a serial number '000' often were prototype lenses. Factory engineers assigned the '000' serial numbers to non-standard, non-production lenses.
2) Lenses marked '3K' and '1947' all were collapsible lenses. The rigid '3K' Zonnar Krasnogorsk lenses were made from 1947 onwards.
Also, a question: were the '3K' lenses from 1948 fitted with Zeiss optical blocks, did they have a Zeiss serial number stamped into the rear element collar?, Can anyone show a picture of such a '3K' 1948 rear collar and other numbers scratched into the lens internals by Soviet engineers?
I'm trying to assess whether my rigid barrel '3K' from 1947, serial N000918 can be genuine, even in the absence of Zeiss serial numbers in the rear-element collar.
Filzkoeter
stray animal
According to Sovietcams.com ZK 2.0/J8 lenses were recalculated in late 1948 for the use of domestic glass.
A genuine 47' ZK should therefor be genuine Zeiss. And yes, it's common that Zeiss parts were stamped with Zeiss serial numbers.
But in my opinion it's worth considering that the Soviets took a lot of Zeiss parts over after conquering the factory in Jena. Those parts propably were in all states of production, so it's unlikly that all elements had already serial numbers given to them. I guess that they had some elements that weren't assembled into fixtures yet (it would explain the absence of a Zeiss SN).
Are the fixtures made out of brass or alloy?
A genuine 47' ZK should therefor be genuine Zeiss. And yes, it's common that Zeiss parts were stamped with Zeiss serial numbers.
But in my opinion it's worth considering that the Soviets took a lot of Zeiss parts over after conquering the factory in Jena. Those parts propably were in all states of production, so it's unlikly that all elements had already serial numbers given to them. I guess that they had some elements that weren't assembled into fixtures yet (it would explain the absence of a Zeiss SN).
Are the fixtures made out of brass or alloy?
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
"Mystery" solved: http://forum.mflenses.com/zk-sonnar-1947-5cm-f2-0-red-p-t52274,highlight,+zk++sonnar.html
Mine is a fake for sure!
At least it does produce decent images, and makes a nice kit when combined with a Carl Zeiss Jena aluminium front cap and a self-made black cardboard rear cap.
Mine is a fake for sure!
At least it does produce decent images, and makes a nice kit when combined with a Carl Zeiss Jena aluminium front cap and a self-made black cardboard rear cap.
Jacques M.
Established
Hello Johan,
Of course, the lens you show is a fake: the paintings are convincing...
I own several 1948 and 1949 rigid ZK lenses in Contax mount. I thought they all were Zeiss lenses. I dismounted them and none of them had a Zeiss number. Fakes? Not sure: I bought them on Kiev II and III-s, several years ago, when there was no question.
About early LTM lenses, the problem is somewhat different. In 1946-47, KMZ had to deliver ZK lenses to Arsenal for their early Kiev II. LTM lenses will be used later, in 1948-49 for Fed-Zorki. So, LTM lenses were not necessary, except perhaps for special orders of high rank officers who need something better than a 2/50mm Fed on their Fed S... Moreover, 200 2/5cm LTM Sonnar only were officially ordered by the Russians at the end of WW2.
Collapsible lenses should have been the rule in such a case. But the tip of the rangefinder on Fed and Fed-Zorki is "drop shaped": difficult to fit with
a collapsible lens. I own a regular wartime collapsible 2/5cm Sonnar, M marked, so regulated for Feds, and I know what I speak of... So, if possible I would have replaced the collapsible module by a rigid one when available... Hence the 2 or 3 rigid LTM 1947 ZK I have seen till now.
That does not explain the lack of Zeiss serial number on your lens, Johan. But rather than thinking it's a fake, I prefer saying that there is no visible proof it's not genuine...
Amitiés. Jacques.
Of course, the lens you show is a fake: the paintings are convincing...
I own several 1948 and 1949 rigid ZK lenses in Contax mount. I thought they all were Zeiss lenses. I dismounted them and none of them had a Zeiss number. Fakes? Not sure: I bought them on Kiev II and III-s, several years ago, when there was no question.
About early LTM lenses, the problem is somewhat different. In 1946-47, KMZ had to deliver ZK lenses to Arsenal for their early Kiev II. LTM lenses will be used later, in 1948-49 for Fed-Zorki. So, LTM lenses were not necessary, except perhaps for special orders of high rank officers who need something better than a 2/50mm Fed on their Fed S... Moreover, 200 2/5cm LTM Sonnar only were officially ordered by the Russians at the end of WW2.
Collapsible lenses should have been the rule in such a case. But the tip of the rangefinder on Fed and Fed-Zorki is "drop shaped": difficult to fit with
a collapsible lens. I own a regular wartime collapsible 2/5cm Sonnar, M marked, so regulated for Feds, and I know what I speak of... So, if possible I would have replaced the collapsible module by a rigid one when available... Hence the 2 or 3 rigid LTM 1947 ZK I have seen till now.
That does not explain the lack of Zeiss serial number on your lens, Johan. But rather than thinking it's a fake, I prefer saying that there is no visible proof it's not genuine...
Amitiés. Jacques.
Bar8barian
Established
One could always look for the Carl Zeiss Jena Sonnars (F1.5 and F2 versions) produced in LTM in the early Post-War period (1947/48) that were produced at the original Carl Zeiss Jena works during the early years of the Russian occupation.
These started to be numbered at serial no. 3,000,000.
I once owned a nice example of the CZJ F1.5 Sonnar that came on a Leica IIIc that had been acquired by a U.S. Army officer who had served in the U.S. Zone of West Germany in 1947/50.
It was very well made with a high quality outer polished aluminium barrel but with a heavy brass internal lens cell.
See photo's attached:-
Photo's of the lens are below
These started to be numbered at serial no. 3,000,000.
I once owned a nice example of the CZJ F1.5 Sonnar that came on a Leica IIIc that had been acquired by a U.S. Army officer who had served in the U.S. Zone of West Germany in 1947/50.
It was very well made with a high quality outer polished aluminium barrel but with a heavy brass internal lens cell.
See photo's attached:-
Photo's of the lens are below
Ron (Netherlands)
Well-known
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
Gotta admit I regret selling my Sonnar 2.0/85 to Dirk after seeing the test shots for focus I sent him during the sale. It was a nice lens and I could count the hairs on my dogs back from a shot 15 ft away, shot wide open!
I find myself looking for a replacement 85 or 90 but money is tight... The 90 Elmar I have (bought from you, Tom) will be my only 90 for quite some time to come...
Oh well.
I find myself looking for a replacement 85 or 90 but money is tight... The 90 Elmar I have (bought from you, Tom) will be my only 90 for quite some time to come...
Oh well.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
A little hyper about this lens, eh? I think it resonates with you the way a Hassy SWC's Biogon 38 does with me. I don't shoot a lot of women with the latter, however..
Enjoy it.
G
Enjoy it.
G