Steve Ruddy
Established
I purchased a Leica IIIf last year and threw in a roll of slide film to check it out. I discovered the curtain was riddled with holes but the shutter seemed fine and the images looked fairly sharp. So I sent it out and had a full service, which included a new curtain and rangefinder parts. I was very anxious to try it out so I loaded it without trimming the leader. It was a pain but I thought I did ok. Well it turns out it wasn't, and after I shot most of it, I get an email from my service guy saying he sent me his bottom cover by accident as he had his camera out for reference. Here are all the issues I had with my first roll.
Here is a shot showing the two frame issues.
Hopefully trimming the leader next time and using the correct bottom cover will correct the frame problems. However I do have my reservations about the frames not being parallel. Also when I loaded the second roll I took off the lens and held open the shutter. When touching the film in the middle of the frame it appeared there as a bit of a gap. It is maybe .0001" however it seemed tight against the sides of the frame. I didn't notice any weird focus issues, other than everything looked soft so maybe it's the lens. It has a slight amount of fog and some scratches. Problem is I don't have a known good sharp lens to try in its place.
Focus was on the throttle levers which look very soft to me.
With a good lens I should be able to read the small type. Cant even make out my cats hair.
- Film not trimmed for easy loading
- Wrong bottom cover (doesn't have film guide)
- All images are into sprocket
- images are not parallel to each other
- Forgot to take my lens cap off for 8 images
- all images look unacceptably soft
Here is a shot showing the two frame issues.
Hopefully trimming the leader next time and using the correct bottom cover will correct the frame problems. However I do have my reservations about the frames not being parallel. Also when I loaded the second roll I took off the lens and held open the shutter. When touching the film in the middle of the frame it appeared there as a bit of a gap. It is maybe .0001" however it seemed tight against the sides of the frame. I didn't notice any weird focus issues, other than everything looked soft so maybe it's the lens. It has a slight amount of fog and some scratches. Problem is I don't have a known good sharp lens to try in its place.
Focus was on the throttle levers which look very soft to me.
With a good lens I should be able to read the small type. Cant even make out my cats hair.
Particular
a.k.a. CNNY, disassembler
Screw mount leicas were designed to use leica cartridges, not standard 35mm cartridges. The standard cartridges are a few mm shorter so they drop down pulling the film askew, hence the sprockets showing. The simple solution (other than using leica cartridges) is to glue a nylon washer, or a little bit of felt on the base plate below where the film sits to push it up gently. It is not a flaw.
Steve Ruddy
Established
Yes I have discovered that to be true. I haven't shimmed the second roll as I want to see how much better just using the right bottom with the guide turns out. Here are some photos backing up your claim. To center the film of today's canisters with a Leica canister slot I needed to use paper shim of 1.3mm. However If I were to shim my modern canisters that much based, on my first roll, it would put them into the opposing slots. I'll see how this one does then I'll sneak up on it to get it as perfectly centered as possible. This doesn't explain the frames being out of parallel though.
Particular
a.k.a. CNNY, disassembler
Remember that the cartridge goes in upside down. I have two nylon washers glued into the bit that locks the base plate that add up to 1.8mm, but 1.5 is probably enough. Some craft foam or felt will also work and it will self adjust to the right thickness. Once the film goes in right, the frames will be nicely aligned.
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
Most IIIf baseplates have a flat metal tab that sticks up inside the camera to push the film up to correct position even when using modern cartridges. You can see it clearly in the photo here.
If your camera's baseplate had it and the one the repairman sent back to you does not, that is why the film is showing the sprocket holes in the images. It is also probably why the images are slightly rotated.
As for the softness, maybe the rangefinder is out of adjustment.
If your camera's baseplate had it and the one the repairman sent back to you does not, that is why the film is showing the sprocket holes in the images. It is also probably why the images are slightly rotated.
As for the softness, maybe the rangefinder is out of adjustment.
charjohncarter
Veteran
I've had a IIIf since 1964, and I've never used anything but Kodak and maybe a few Fuji prepared films. So I'm not sure about these loading complaints.
I'm sorry what happened to you, but I've had a bad CLA with mine and I was able to get that fixed (by changing operator).
I'm sorry what happened to you, but I've had a bad CLA with mine and I was able to get that fixed (by changing operator).
Particular
a.k.a. CNNY, disassembler
Ah, I use a IIIc and was referring to my experience with that. Perhaps the repair person fitted a IIIc plate on the IIIf and that caused the misalignment.
css9450
Veteran
On my Zorki I shim both the film cartridge and the takeup spool (I suspect the takeup spool is not original). Without the shims, both the film cartridge and ESPECIALLY the spool would sit too low and the film would go across the pressure plate crooked. The sprockets were visible in the photo and the frames were all out of parallel.
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
That was my thought too.
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
Yea. IIf, Zorki, Canon LTM all from fifties, never used those clunky Leica ones. Just Kodak metal reloadables and regular film rolls.
The only camera I have same problem is also after some unknown dude on eBay selling cameras after his service. I have Nicca IIIa like this.
The only camera I have same problem is also after some unknown dude on eBay selling cameras after his service. I have Nicca IIIa like this.
mcfingon
Western Australia
I have a IIIf made in 1951 that doesn't have the little foot that pushes the film up into proper alignment Steve. I usually can't be bothered using the Leica cassettes so I just put an o-ring off a motorbike chain on the bottom of the cassette, to push it up that little bit. Hopefully the pic will explain what I mean. With the focus thing, I found my IIIf didn't focus accurately enough with the lens I normally use after service, so I re-adjusted it myself until it did. Various articles around on that.
John Mc
John Mc
alexmuir
Member
First roll after service is a disaster!
I also have a IIIF from 1951, and it did not have the film alignment guide on the baseplate. It seems to have been introduced around the time that the synch contact numbers changed to red. I was having the sprocket overlap issue with standard cassettes. Using the Leica cassettes cured this, but was no use for colour film which I send out for processing. I eventually bought a new base with the guide. It works properly with standard cassettes.
When I encountered these issues, I could not find much written about the introduction of the alignment guide, and yet it must have been talked about in the early 1950s . I wondered if Leitz sold new style bases for people who wanted to upgrade. I presume the use of standard cassettes was becoming more the norm, and that is why Leitz addressed this. The M3, and presumably later M models, have the guide in the base.
Alex.
I also have a IIIF from 1951, and it did not have the film alignment guide on the baseplate. It seems to have been introduced around the time that the synch contact numbers changed to red. I was having the sprocket overlap issue with standard cassettes. Using the Leica cassettes cured this, but was no use for colour film which I send out for processing. I eventually bought a new base with the guide. It works properly with standard cassettes.
When I encountered these issues, I could not find much written about the introduction of the alignment guide, and yet it must have been talked about in the early 1950s . I wondered if Leitz sold new style bases for people who wanted to upgrade. I presume the use of standard cassettes was becoming more the norm, and that is why Leitz addressed this. The M3, and presumably later M models, have the guide in the base.
Alex.
mcfingon
Western Australia
The M3 and later take a shorter cassette Alex. There was a different Leica cassette made for them and they have no problem with modern standard film cassettes.
John Mc
John Mc
alexmuir
Member
Thanks for that, John. I am hoping to buy an M3 at some point. It’s good to know you can use any cassette. The issue of images on the perforations was a bit of a surprise when I bought the IIIF. Not really what I was expecting.
Alex
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Alex
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Huss
Veteran
retinax
Well-known
Re. the softness, it looks like camera shake to me, but is hard to tell because it looks like a bad scan as well. Take some pictures with high shutter speed or on a tripod and get better scans or use a loupe or something to judge.
I've never worried about this in 30 years of using various LTM cameras but I like the serendipities ~ Most images get cropped a little somewhere anyway and it's not like you're able to frame the photos with perfection using a viewfinder.
Beemermark
Veteran
"With a good lens I should be able to read the small type. Cant even make out my cats hair."
IMHO the picture is plenty sharp. If you want to try to improve the sharpness try Pan F ISO 50mm developed in D23 and use a tripod. I don't think there's a problem with the lens or camera.
IMHO the picture is plenty sharp. If you want to try to improve the sharpness try Pan F ISO 50mm developed in D23 and use a tripod. I don't think there's a problem with the lens or camera.
Hari
Well-known
I'll say it again here: to load a screw mount Leica do the following:
remove lens
don't trim the leader (even if bulk loaded)
use a LOCKING cable release
set Leica on B
open shutter and lock open
after fitting leader into take-up spool, place carefully in camera
check that the film is visible
tension the film with rewind knob
close the shutter
as you wind on, observe film rewind knob rotating
close the back
advance another frame
My 2 cents, it's worked for me for years!
remove lens
don't trim the leader (even if bulk loaded)
use a LOCKING cable release
set Leica on B
open shutter and lock open
after fitting leader into take-up spool, place carefully in camera
check that the film is visible
tension the film with rewind knob
close the shutter
as you wind on, observe film rewind knob rotating
close the back
advance another frame
My 2 cents, it's worked for me for years!
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
It amazes me the effort some will go to in order to avoid just doing something the right way. You should NEVER load a camera that way. It gets dirt in the camera and eventually you'll damage the shutter if the cable release slips while you're using your fingers to position the film. Just do it right and trim the leader, its not that hard.
When I was in art school 20-some years ago, there was a big sign in the university's darkroom that said: "If you're not going to do it right, don't bother to start. You're wasting your time and taking up space that could be used by someone who wants to succeed."