For U.K. members: State of Public Picture-Taking in U.K.

[julianphotoart]

I'm sorry if this topic came up before; I don't recall seeing it. So, I'm a reader of Amateur Photographer, published in the U.K. For what seems like the last 6 months, every week's issue has letters about the sad state of affairs in the U.K. re the ability of minding-their-own-business amateur photographers to take photos in public places, especially photos that just happen to have kids in them -- all of this apparently arising out of fears that all photographers are paedophiles. Police stop them, hooligans assault them, and irate mothers threaten them. I'm from the U.K. but have been away for precious many years. What is the REAL state of affairs? Are AP readers over-sensitive? Is it only the U.K., or is this virus spreading across Europe? Has anyone in public office (i.e. Ken Livingston) PUBLICLY come out to say how ironic it is he wants to ban public photo-taking while appealing for photos involving the July bombings? I ask all this because this is the sort of thing that someone with an agend could get hold of in the U.S. and cause trouble.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Several years ago I was taking pictures on the beach near where I lived at the time (Minnis Bay on the Kent Coast). I was using an MPP Mk. VII and Polaroid Sepia. Three teenage girls said 'Take me photo, mister' so I did (the Polaroid was free outdated stock that Polaroid had given me). I wrote my name and phone number on the back of one of the prints and said, "If your parents are worried, they can call me."

Half an hour later the police turned up...

So yes, things have got that crazy -- though you presumably already read that story in AP in my column on the back page. Of course it doesn't happen all the time, or even often, but I'd no longer take a camera onto the beach. And you've presumably seen Austin Mitchell's story about much the same thing.

Then again, about a decade ago I was shooting in NYC: kids playing baseball in an alley, as cheering and all-American a scene as you could wish for. An officious adult came over and said that they'd rather people didn't take pictures of their children, because it might be for the wrong reasons.

Cheers,

Roger

 

[Poptart]

I suppose it's somehow ironic that the media and law enforcement have collaborated to restrict photography of people in public places, since they themselves are the greatest violators of that prohibition. Especially in London with its c.c. cameras everywhere trained on unsuspecting citizens.

 

[Paul T.]

Unfortunately the British tabloid press have whipped the public up into a frenzy regarding paedophilia, encouraging vigilante action. I remember one doctor was assaulted because he was a paedeatrician - some intelligent creature thought this meant he was a paedophile. For similar reasons, many schools ban photography at school plays etc.

the only solution I've found is to have your own child, and take photos of them and their friends. They're slightly higher maintenance than most photo accessories, but rather more rewarding.

 

[Kevin]

the only solution I've found is to have your own child, and take photos of them and their friends.

Or simply move or travel to another place in Europe where this ludicrous paranoia does not exist.

 

[RML]

Or simply move or travel to another place in Europe where this ludicrous paranoia does not exist.

Which is where?

Here in Holland I'm also aware of the bad rep photogs in general are getting by the media and the assocation with paedophilia and "terrorism". Also, more and more people seem to feel photogs invade their privacy, even in public places.

 

[Kevin]

In Germany this is not so. I have taken so many pictures of people on streets, in clubs, during Carnival, parades, etc.

As far as children are concerned, taking their pics on the street is no problem here. Again, picture taking is not illegal, it is what you do with the pics afterwards. If this law is backwards in England, you just have to reverse your living choices by voting with your feet.

I just met a scottish/english couple who did that (moved to Germany) and they still cannot believe how their living standard rose 300% by simply moving here. And no more asinine laws and London people who, according to their reports, are completely unrelaxed.

Kev

 

[cameramanic]

The Uk situation is getting worse, If I walk through Cardiff City Centre today ,with a camera in my hand,I will get lots of suspicious looks.

The press is partly to blame for this, with the scare storys they print,
and now every photographer is looked on as a potential paedophile.

You are no longer allowed to take photographs of your own children in public places ie school plays /sports days/ swimming gala's.this is now banned in most schools in Wales.

The way its going ,I would not be suprised if because of this paranoid attitude, that in the future you will have to obtain a Government licence to take photos in public.

 

[Azinko]

I think this is yet another symptom of a disease which seems to have destroyed the UK,...namely, political correctness being used to spread creeping mediocrity in all areas of life here. Anyone who wants to achieve in any field must first struggle thru' not only a mass of rules and restrictions purposely designed to stop the very activity concerned, but also a whingeing moral criticism which questions any none standard motive!!....I'm quite sure there are individuals out there who take satisfaction in finding flower arranging and stamp collecting anti-social at the moment .

A well known TV news reader, Julia Somerville was arrested after taking her holiday snaps for processing as they showed her kids in swimwear. Eventually everythign was sorted out but the media had had a field day by then!

A friend of mine took her holiday pix for processing after her family holiday in Orlando and forgot that there were images of the whole family larking around in their hotel room while more or less undressed. She was phoned at home to say that the pix would be delayed due to a technical problem with the machine and that she should call at an exact time which she did. When she presented her slip to the counter staff she was suddenly confronted with four police including a woman PC who asked to kook in her handbag,...this in full view of the local high street where she and her family live. Eventually she was able to make a clear case that none of th pix were anything other than people having a good time and the police departed in the direction of other 'Law and Order' but took down her complete details "as a formality". My friend has been seriously frightened by this experience and who can blame her? My anger is directed to the processing lab who new that the pix were ok but could not resist being "public spirited" and took obvious pleasure in lightening the boring business of operating a mini-lab by being able to phone the police and get instant response. If it had merely been a burglary or a street accident outside then they would have had to wait the usuall couple of hours for a bored constable to appear.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Kevin,

Vote with your feet -- exactly!

Greetings from France,

Roger

 

[TPPhotog]

Many people are attracted to photography to capture their children as they develop and by beautiful pictures of children by people such as HCB and other icons. Others will spend more time looking at pictures featuring children than landscapes if you watch them in galleries. Yet I always find it amazing that it's the same people that are paranoid about their own children appearing in photographs of other photographers.

I tend to find it easier these days to shoot whatever I want if I have my wife and son with me. It seems that no matter how many females have been convicted of abuse and murder over the decades that few seem to remember and are happy if there is a female present.

The world is indeed coming a more confused place wallowing in it's own paranoia 🙁

 

[cameramanic]

Am I right in thinking it is even worse in France, where it is an offence to take someones
photo without permission ?

 

[cameramanic]

Well said Tony

 

[TPPhotog]

😱

Here's an example (sorry it needs some work in the darkroom) to me reflects the attitude and confidence of todays youth.

I suspect that I would have been questioned if it wasn't for the fact that I spend many hours there shooting local people and if I hadn't been chatting to some neighbours with their children at that time. None photographers seen to pick this on out as being something special simply because it has a youth (child) in it 😡

 

[Paul T.]

Lawds-sakes, before we all slit our wrists, I've taken hundreds of photos in London and never been hassled, nor have most of the photographers I know. And I suspect the tabloids' obessions have moved elsewhere.

And while I've loved living in other cities, like San Fran or Chicago, I'd go with the resident of Gough Square who once said "No sir, when a man is tired of London, he is tired of Life'.

 

[TPPhotog]

Julian I just re-read the thread and "... how ironic it is he wants to ban public photo-taking while appealing for photos involving the July bombings ..." is the argument I use these days if anyone challenges street shooting. There isn't an answer to that one and they usually give up the "argument" 😉

 

[Uncle Bill]

This is nuts and I am glad I am in Canada, the land of the laid back for now. I hope this disease of fear does not spread. Even now I am carefull as to what I shoot. I already had a rude encounter this Summer, not over a someone who was vocally camera shy but over an inanimate object.

Bill

 

[TPPhotog]

Bill please explain more .... I'm intrigued 😀

 

[jaapv]

Which is where?

Here in Holland I'm also aware of the bad rep photogs in general are getting by the media and the assocation with paedophilia and "terrorism". Also, more and more people seem to feel photogs invade their privacy, even in public places.

I've never had any problems of that kind here in Holland (yet????)

 

[darkkavenger]

Never heard of this neither in France or Czech Republic. Some drunk people might yell after you like it happened to me and a fellow photographer in Paris (but then we weren't even aiming at them) else I had no problems at all in any of those two countries. I'm from France and I live in Czech Republic, just in case... ok i'm Italian too, but I hardly go there nowadays!