formula for using expired film - SEEKING one - don't KNOW one...

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meezy

meezy
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i've inherited a MASSIVE cache of expired film (~500 rolls?). some of it is delicious ilford delta 400, hp5, had awesome results from agfa scala 200 without any sort of compensation/calculations...

http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af284/misiakfotos/cuba/scan0039.jpg

...but a lot of it is high speed and when i shoot, i nervously switch iso's all the time. i just shot a couple of 3200 rolls at 1600, 1000, and 1250 iso's and at a variety of shutter speeds. i hate the UNCERTAINTY!! i can't trust my meter with this stuff!!

is there a rule of thumb that you guys use when shooting expired film? for instance - i've heard that relatively low speed film keeps well, so i wouldn't do much when shooting 400iso or below - but even brand new 3200 film isn't really 3200 - so what do i do?? shoot it at half (1600)? what do i do to compensate for age? at what point do i shoot 3200 film at 1000? when it's over 5 years old?

i would love to come up with a formula of some sort. anyone care to chime in on this?

looking forward to what i know will be some interesting answers.

cheers,
~m
 
I would shoot shoot two of those rolls of 3200 film at EI's of 800 and 1600. Develop normally and then make adjustments from those two initial rolls. If it is Delta 3200, then some members may tell you that you need to develop longer than the Ilford data/literature suggests.

Yes, there would probably a fair amount of base fog with the faster film but a lot will depend on the storage conditions. Shoot the 400 film at EI 200-250 and develop normally. Then examine the negatives and go from there. It will pay to use a few test rolls before you shoot the important work on that film.

I tend to avoid expired film even if I am saving a couple of bucks, as this just introduces another variable that I have to take into account when processing. I try to eliminate these unknown variables to just make life easier. I read that you inherited your cache, so under those circumstances I the time out to test would be worth the financial savings.

Good luck!
 
Since you have so much of this film, you have enough to go ahead and just shoot some test rolls. The first step is to pop it all in the fridge or freezer to stop or slow further deterioration. Then, you should make a chart for each type of film. Shoot a roll of each at box speed and develop normally. Make notes about how they look, and adjust in one stop increments from there. I would probably start by adjusting the ISO at which you shoot, while continuing to develop normally. Find the ISO that looks the best with normal development, and then, once you have found that, tweak the development time to fine-tune. If you keep good notes, and all of the film of each type expired at around the same time, you should be golden. Good luck!
 
There is no "cookbook" answer. You mileage may vary.

As a general trend, out of date film picks up some base fog and looses some speed. The general trend in corrections for B&W are to shoot at a slightly or somewhat lower ISO and to develop either normally or slightly "overdevelop". The later usually being to increase the number of agitation cycles (i.e. 3 per minute instead of 2, ...) rather than increase time.

They only way to get really good results is by the old and reliable "Trial and Terror" method. Shoot a roll, one for each type, of a typical scene (that's typical for your use) at several ISOs from the marked speed to 2 stops over (lower ISO). Repeat this several times down the roll. Now cut the roll into about 3 pieces and process one normally. Judge the negs for shadow detail to find the one that's properly exposed (of course you were smart enough to include a card with the ISO in the picture), then judge the highlights in that image to see if its properly processed. Use that to decide if you need to process the next piece differently or not.
 
Fresh film? What is that?

Fresh film? What is that?

titrisol said:
Ilford DDX or Xtol should be your best bet
there will be fogging anyway so do not take any special pictures with it before you test at least one roll
Click to expand...

I usually take crappy photos, you can tell that by the pictures that I have posted, but I mostly shoot outdated film that I buy on e_bay and have pretty good luck, even with the color stuff. I have about 50 ft of Kodak Tri-x that, if I am reading the date code correctly and using the correct chart, was manufactured in the late 80's and develop it in Ilford DDX.

As someone has already suggested, shoot a roll of each type and ISO, document every shot and start a log. I use a format that I got off of the internet that is called, "Photographer's Log". I customized it some and then took the downloaded file to local qiuick print shop and they made up little books for me.

Some films might not be very good and others might just be as good as fresh. The Tri-X that I have produces fair to middlin' results when exposeded @ ISO 320. A little fog, but I just tell my wife that it is a special effect that I have been striving for in years. 😎
 
Jaans said:
I would shoot shoot two of those rolls of 3200 film at EI's of 800 and 1600. Develop normally and then make adjustments from those two initial rolls. If it is Delta 3200, then some members may tell you that you need to develop longer than the Ilford data/literature suggests.

Yes, there would probably a fair amount of base fog with the faster film but a lot will depend on the storage conditions. Shoot the 400 film at EI 200-250 and develop normally. Then examine the negatives and go from there. It will pay to use a few test rolls before you shoot the important work on that film.
Click to expand...

hmmm... that's a term i haven't used before... "base fog". yeah - that's a great term for what i'm seeing. thanks for your advice.
 
Papa Smurf said:
As someone has already suggested, shoot a roll of each type and ISO, document every shot and start a log. I use a format that I got off of the internet that is called, "Photographer's Log". I customized it some and then took the downloaded file to local qiuick print shop and they made up little books for me.
Click to expand...

photographer's log, huh? sounds like more work than i initially bargained for - but also sounds like a great way to figure out how to shoot this film with la lot ess trial and error. can you hook me up with this format you found? i searched around the interweb a bit, but came up with nothing. would really appreciate a link or lead or something.
cheers,
~m
 
meezy said:
photographer's log, huh? sounds like more work than i initially bargained for - but also sounds like a great way to figure out how to shoot this film with la lot ess trial and error. can you hook me up with this format you found? i searched around the interweb a bit, but came up with nothing. would really appreciate a link or lead or something.
cheers,
~m
Click to expand...

Not finding whatever that I am searching for is par for the course, including today! I did find some info, just not for what I was looking.

http://www.dataget.com/pocketlog/pl_apps.html
http://www.deltasinai.com/images/records12.htm

The photographer's data sheet described in the last one is very similar to what I am using. Actually, if you have a voice recorder you have everything that you need. Just document each frame as you shot it, with aperture, shutter speed, etc. and any comments that will better identify the conditions at the time. When you get home transcribe the info to any notebook. As someone else pointed out the goal is to create a chart for each type and ISO of film that will allow you to questimate the new ISO of the film. Once you have good data, it will be easy to do and then you can shoot with confidence.

Don't forget, it is bracketing that is going to allow you to determine if the film's ISO has changed and how much. Color film and regular B&W have considerable exposure latitude, so bracket in big steps for those types of film.

There is one more web site that you might want to look at, it is called 'fotolog' by 101 Palmations and is shareware ($5.95 to register) (101palmations.hypermart.net)

http://www.palmgear.com
 
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Papa Smurf said:
Not finding whatever that I am searching for is par for the course, including today! I did find some info, just not for what I was looking.

http://www.dataget.com/pocketlog/pl_apps.html
http://www.deltasinai.com/images/records12.htm

The photographer's data sheet described in the last one is very similar to what I am using. Actually, if you have a voice recorder you have everything that you need. Just document each frame as you shot it, with aperture, shutter speed, etc. and any comments that will better identify the conditions at the time. When you get home transcribe the info to any notebook. As someone else pointed out the goal is to create a chart for each type and ISO of film that will allow you to questimate the new ISO of the film. Once you have good data, it will be easy to do and then you can shoot with confidence.
http://www.palmgear.com
Click to expand...

excellent, smurf. thanks for the help!
 
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