Frustrated Photo-dork needs Advice Badly

............................... What's the easiest combo of things to use to get me near here? Camera, software, etc. what do I need? I'm not looking to buy my way to it but I do need these tools to make the images. I've got the vision and the subjects, I just need to capture them. ........................

My answer is not rhetorical, but a sincere belief. Edward Steichen once said "No photographer is as good as the simplest camera" I hate to sound harsh, but if Steichen, whose photographs date from the beginning of the 20th century, had no technical problems you should not either. Could your problem possibly be something else?
 
OK, first, I really like the attitude vibe I am getting from you: it's not whining; confusion, maybe, but that's fine.

I want to see something you have done to get a feeling for what you're working with that you don't like. Can you do that for us? It can be crap--I don't care.
 
The pictures you posted are nothing special - almost ANY camera can reproduce these - it's all about the light and composition. It seems you are chasing the silver bullet - a camera that magically takes good pictures, no matter what the guy behind the viewfinder does.

Stick with ONE camera and practice!
 
Keep at it!

Keep at it!

A friend who takes wonderful pictures was once told "you must have a really good camera..." Its not the camera, the film, the processor etc., etc., etc. Its you! Keep at it, and you may begin to be a good photographer...or not. If you don't like your own results, keep at it or give up. There is no magic bullet.
 
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On the subject of silver bullets, two texts came to mind. I highly recommend both - it can be healthy reading whenever you are unsure about your camera gear and feel the need to lighten your wallet (I should know!).

1) This (long) post by the great Ben Lifson, about how the camera is not the key and how spending money on new gear almost certainly won't make you happier with your pictures.

2), The Magic Bullet by Mike Johnston:

"To be honest, most of my pictures suck. The saving grace of that admission is that most of your pictures suck, too. How could I possibly know such a thing? Because most of everybody's pictures suck, that's how. I've seen Cartier-Bresson's contact sheets, and most of his pictures sucked. One of my teachers said that it was an epiphany for him when he took a class from Garry Winogrand and learned that most of Winogrand's exposures sucked. It's the way it is."

You have all the tools you need. Perhaps you can describe your typical workflow for a digital picture, from importing to your computer all the way to the final print? And show a couple and tell us what you think they are lacking?
 
As andersju wrote, it would help if you describe your workflow and include software, rip, profiles, file types from input to output.

If your workflow is sound it could be that you just don't like your pictures enough, you start 'pixel peeping' your prints.

If I take what I consider a great photo, I don't consider if it's grainy, blurry underexposed or whatever. If I take what I consider a mediocre photo I find myself pixel peeping.

More and more if I find myself doing this, I trash the photo.

-Greg
 
12 cameras and none of them meet your expectations?

I think you need to take a basic photography class or some photo classes. This all does not come easy. You have to put in the time. There is a learning curve. I think you know where you want to go , but I believe you have unfounded expectations and, excuse me, not a put down, not the where-with-all or knowledge to understand what you are doing to get what you want.
 
Reminds me of a post on this very forum, which made me smile and which rang true with me:

There is a certain irony in the fact that a lot of people want a camera that doesn't exist yet so they can make pictures similar to those which were made before they were born with cameras and lenses they would likely now turn their noses up at.
 
I feel your frustration and respect that you have asked an honest question.
IMHO. I find most problems in photography are solved by shooting more.
You have already isolated what you seek in your images, stick to one camera (doesn't matter which) and work towards it.

Given the images you like, don't dismiss time of day and atmospheric lighting conditions. They play a big role and no camera can negate them.

Amidst all this talk on gear, Bob's (and Mudman's) advice needs to be repeated.

Pick a location, and photograph it during different times and weather conditions. The changes in light (morning/evening, clear/cloudy) will produce different images. The three photos you shared with us were taken under overcast conditions.

And at the risk of asking the obvious: are you shooting with a tripod?
 
The soft light in all of the reference photos definitely jumped out at me as a common factor as well. Wonderful low contrast starting point makes it a bit easier for the camera (digital or film) than an overly contrasty day.

I'm a bit confused about your post. Have all of the cameras failed for you in terms of the images they produce? Or have some been ergonomic problems (or something other than image quality) instead?

What sort of iso are do you usually shoot at? The phrase 'even at iso 400' makes it sound like you are potentially shooting high iso much of the time and are struggling with grain in those photos? With the exception of the top few cameras from each of the manufacturers, high iso noise has been a reality for a while (though iso 400 film is often grainy as well in 35mm). If you want to minimize grain, look for ways to shoot lower iso.

Dealing with color balance, maintaining detail, etc does take time in a digital workflow. I'm willing to bet the photographers whose work you posted put a fair amount of time into post processing (just as high quality traditional prints often involve a lot of work printing). Trying to hit that quality bar while minimizing post processing is a noble goal - and one many photographers strive for - but may not be possible to do consistently.
 
I have an APS-c dSLR (a 40d) and over the year I've had it I have been unimpressed by it's image quality in regards to per-pixel sharpness and dynamic range, as well as color response in harsh lighting. But, it is convenient as it eliminates absolutely the most difficult part to solve: scanning.

If I were to start over, and had ~1000 dollars to spend on equipment knowing everything I know now, I would honestly get a Fuji GW690ii, an epson v700 and a second hand sekonic meter.

my workflow would be either:

b&w:
shoot b&w film -> self develop (it's easy with a changing bag) -> scan -> post process

color:
shoot E6 -> drop off 120 at walmart marked "develop only do not cut" -> scan -> post process

color negative:
shoot C41 -> mail to NCPS or precision -> post process

you can buy film as you go along. just my 2c; most of my camera stuff I have either because it was given to me or it was too good a deal to pass up. but, I didnt really leave myself room to buy a film scanner, especially one that handles 35mm so I actually have been shooting the 40d a lot lately.

don't get me wrong, I love my M2. It's the best camera I've ever owned by a mile and it makes a lot of other nice cameras seem cheap, rough and impossible to focus by comparison but so many of my rolls of film sit unprocessed because I have no way to digitize them right now and that, IMO, blows.
 
I agree, show us an image you would have liked where your camera let you down. That would help with suggestions.

okay... can we see a couple of your photos and hear what you dont like about them. As you mention photography that can be enjoyed is not all that difficult 🙂

It might be possible to take a weekend class or some instruction... could help break down that first wall.

Good luck,
Casey
 
My answer is not rhetorical, but a sincere belief. Edward Steichen once said "No photographer is as good as the simplest camera" I hate to sound harsh, but if Steichen, whose photographs date from the beginning of the 20th century, had no technical problems you should not either. Could your problem possibly be something else?

The pictures you posted are nothing special - almost ANY camera can reproduce these - it's all about the light and composition. It seems you are chasing the silver bullet - a camera that magically takes good pictures, no matter what the guy behind the viewfinder does.

Stick with ONE camera and practice!

How interesting about many of us at RFF. You come here asking why your photos aren't what you want, and ask what camera will help you get better. And you get many gear related answers. I would suggest that isn't your problem at all.

I have known people who used some really cheap cameras. The cameras didn't have many modern features. They couldn't afford a better camera or fancy accessories. Didn't matter. They found ways to get what they wanted.

They took a non-fitting filter and carefully held it in front of their lens for better contrast. They braced themselves on something immovable when the lens wouldn't open wide enough for shorter exposures, because they didn't have a tripod. And they lived with the fact that they were going to miss some photos because their gear wouldn't support them. But not many, because they were always thinking of ways to make what they had work to get the photos they wanted.

In general these people loved making photographs. They wanted good photographs, so they figured out ways to get them. There are 'technical' things you need to learn. You learn by reading, asking questions, and experimenting. But why do you think camera choice alone will get you what you want? How do you think some of the well known and respected photographer of 50 to 70 years ago got good photos without the gear and accessories we have today?

My suggestion is stop focusing on gear. You need photography basics first. Look at lots of photos. Determine what is it you like about the ones you do like. Composition, color, play of light, contrast, a combination. Then look for that kind of scene to photograph. If it doesn't look as good as it should, compare it to the one like that which you liked. Why doesn't it? If you don't see why, ask other photographers.

Good photographs are almost never dependent on gear. Rather, on the photographer who develops an ability to 'see' the world in a certain way, who then looks for ways to record what they see photographically. You have an ability to see good photography, as shown by your choice of photos to show us. How about showing some of your own? We may be able to give helpful suggestions. Or we may think you have an ability you don't see.

One last thing. Many famous photographs have been altered by extreme dodging, burning, contrast changes of paper, and so on. More have had little change over cropping. Don't pay too much attention to classical darkroom manipulation, or computer aided manipulation. Strive for photos that are good without that.

Sorry for the long read, but I don't think your problem, nor most people's is gear. It is just very basic photography done well.
 
12 different cameras in 5 years. Why not try just ONE camera for an entire year. If you're shooting color, find a good lab to process and scan your images. Evaluate each roll as it comes back -- learn the nuances of the camera you're using - make adjustments.

Yes but which camera 🙂 :bang:
...

It doesn't matter!
 
I cannot agree with those who think the camera does not matter (if it didn't, we'd all be using the same camera). Sure, each are capable of decent enough quality, but I truly believe that you should be using a camera that you truly love that makes you want to go out and use it. Comfort is important in a no excuses type of way. If you love your camera and are comfortable with it, then you cannot blame your photos on equipment... You will know it was you that had the off day.

There is nothing wrong with a step up from the cameras you've used. However, realize that photography takes time. People who make great photos, whether technically or conceptually, spend a lot of time on their work because they love it.

I hear a lot of people say they have no time for this or that. If that is the case, then photography might not be for you. There's times when the only time I get to photograph during the day is during my lunch at work... But I still go do it. You make time if you truly love it...and there is nothing wrong with not loving it. Don't force it.
 
one does not magically gain dynamic range or MTF40 contrats because they are named Henri Cartier Bresson.

if he likes the content of the photographs he takes, but finds that he cant get a camera to do what he wants, then by all means he should find a new camera. he said in the OP he's been doing this for minimum 5 years, yet you all presume he couldn't possibly know what he's doing in the slightest.

what if he came in here and said, you know Im trying to get these screws to go in clean but they just wont. I've tried 12 different hammers and cant seem to get what Im looking for.

the answer would apparently be "you should just get better at hammering".

some of you either don't bother to read topics very carefully or you've just made some ridiculous assumptions about your own level of knowledge and skill relative to an average hobbyist.
 
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How interesting about many of us at RFF. You come here asking why your photos aren't what you want, and ask what camera will help you get better. And you get many gear related answers. I would suggest that isn't your problem at all.

I have known people who used some really cheap cameras. The cameras didn't have many modern features. They couldn't afford a better camera or fancy accessories. Didn't matter. They found ways to get what they wanted.

They took a non-fitting filter and carefully held it in front of their lens for better contrast. They braced themselves on something immovable when the lens wouldn't open wide enough for shorter exposures, because they didn't have a tripod. And they lived with the fact that they were going to miss some photos because their gear wouldn't support them. But not many, because they were always thinking of ways to make what they had work to get the photos they wanted.

In general these people loved making photographs. They wanted good photographs, so they figured out ways to get them. There are 'technical' things you need to learn. You learn by reading, asking questions, and experimenting. But why do you think camera choice alone will get you what you want? How do you think some of the well known and respected photographer of 50 to 70 years ago got good photos without the gear and accessories we have today?

My suggestion is stop focusing on gear. You need photography basics first. Look at lots of photos. Determine what is it you like about the ones you do like. Composition, color, play of light, contrast, a combination. Then look for that kind of scene to photograph. If it doesn't look as good as it should, compare it to the one like that which you liked. Why doesn't it? If you don't see why, ask other photographers.

Good photographs are almost never dependent on gear. Rather, on the photographer who develops an ability to 'see' the world in a certain way, who then looks for ways to record what they see photographically. You have an ability to see good photography, as shown by your choice of photos to show us. How about showing some of your own? We may be able to give helpful suggestions. Or we may think you have an ability you don't see.

One last thing. Many famous photographs have been altered by extreme dodging, burning, contrast changes of paper, and so on. More have had little change over cropping. Don't pay too much attention to classical darkroom manipulation, or computer aided manipulation. Strive for photos that are good without that.

Sorry for the long read, but I don't think your problem, nor most people's is gear. It is just very basic photography done well.


Agreeing here.. well said even if long.

Decide what you want to create, get out and create it comparing it to other images you like and break it down point by point. If it is a gear issue it will make itself known but if it is a matter of some technical aspect then you will be covering that by practice. Don't know your level of skill but even practiced photographers can learn something by poking their noses in a book or taking a technique specific class. You had a lot of decent cameras, some better than others, definitely good enough to pull off whatever you need to do. If it's post processing you can get a book or take a class. Sometimes we just don't know what that is until we immerse ourselves.
 
if he likes the content of the photographs he takes, but finds that he cant get a camera to do what he wants, then by all means he should find a new camera. he said in the OP he's been doing this for minimum 5 years, yet you all presume he couldn't possibly know what he's doing in the slightest.

what if he came in here and said, you know Im trying to get these screws to go in clean but they just wont. I've tried 12 different hammers and cant seem to get what Im looking for.

the answer would apparently be "you should just get better at hammering".

Did you read the OP's list of cameras?

"D50, D40, Rebel XSI, Rebel T3, D70, Lumix G1, Lumix G2, D5000, LX-5, DRebel, D1H, FZ30"

I don't know the capabilities of all these cameras, but I'm sure a handful of them are capable of getting the shots he posted as examples. So he does not need to change the tool.

At this point, we're all speculating what the problem is since the OP hasn't posted his own images. If he did, I agree with the shimokita and ChrisP that it would help pinpoint the problems.
 
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