Fuji GFX50S medium format is here.

[aizan]

no leaf shutter, waaaa...

 

[SaveKodak]

no leaf shutter, waaaa...

I can think of exactly 1 scenario where Leaf shutters are very important to have. That is outdoors, trying to beat the sun, wide open. Feel free to outline another situation for me where a 2 stop improvement in shutter speed would be important enough to you to make you spend $25k on a Hasselblad.

And this is assuming that Fuji never makes CS lenses in the future.

 

[f16sunshine]

I can think of exactly 1 scenario where Leaf shutters are very important to have. That is outdoors, trying to beat the sun, wide open. Feel free to outline another situation for me where a 2 stop improvement in shutter speed would be important enough to you to make you spend $25k on a Hasselblad.

And this is assuming that Fuji never makes CS lenses in the future.

I like leaf shutters also.

*High flash sync speed.
*Low light handhold ability (leaf adds a couple stops over FP shutter in my experience).
*Silence. They are quiet.

Fuji built many for decades. There will be some for this system eventually.
Hopefully they would even make one for the small cameras.
Having a higher flash sync is a major boon of leaf shutters even for aps-c.

 

[jsrockit]

I like leaf shutters also.

*High flash sync speed.
*Low light handhold ability (leaf adds a couple stops over FP shutter in my experience).
*Silence. They are quiet.

Agreed... .

 

[Calzone]

Leaf shutters are mucho good.

Sometimes I nail a shot on a Rollei or Fuji (Texas Leica) at 1/15 second.

On my Rollei 3.5F I have to advance the film to confirm that I took the shot because I often don't hear the shutter. It is that quiet.

Cal

 

[SaveKodak]

I like leaf shutters also.

*High flash sync speed.
*Low light handhold ability (leaf adds a couple stops over FP shutter in my experience).
*Silence. They are quiet.

Fuji built many for decades. There will be some for this system eventually.
Hopefully they would even make one for the small cameras.
Having a higher flash sync is a major boon of leaf shutters even for aps-c.

*Low light hand-hold advantage came from no-mirror slap, not from some inherent advantage of the leaf shutter.
*You have not yet heard the shutter in this camera. FPS cams can be remarkable quiet. Is the Leica MP loud now? I recall that the K-3 was marketed as being quieter than an M4. The Canon 5D3 in quiet mode was surprising silent. All of these cameras may not be as quiet as a GF670, but none of the above are loud enough to bother anyone, even in a quiet church which is where I do my work frequently.

*Yes, you have a higher sync speed. But again, are you going to now spend 25K on a Hasselblad so that you can use strobes to beat the sun while shooting wide open in daylight? Is that one situation so important to you? Cause in the studio 1/125th of a second causes no problems.

 

[SaveKodak]

Also, you can all relax now:

"There will be a range of adapters to connect third-party lenses to the GFX 50S, including leaf shutter lenses for studio and flash work."

Source: http://www.fujirumors.com/fujifilm-...electronic-shutter-fuji-designed-sensor-more/

 

[Spanik]

Everybody raving about "lightweight body" but with MF the lenses are often more weight than the body. And if you go "on a set" with MF then the cart with the camera and lenses could well be lighter than the make-up...

 

[vytasn]

Some talk of a "global shutter" possibility in the Luminous Landscape interview with Fuji.

https://luminous-landscape.com/photokina-2016-day-one/

 

[Harry Caul]

Since the flange is so short, I'm assuming we'll see:

-- lots of adapters for obsolete MF systems
-- possibly tilt/shift adapters to better utilize the larger image circle in those 6x4.5, 6x6 and 6x7 lenses
-- we might also get "speedboosters" to mitigate the crop size of the sensor

It's going to be a fun few years for MF gear heads! Better start stocking up on those choice MF lenses... if the trajectory is anything like when mirrorless cameras first hit the market, I foresee a steep price increase for those special MF lenses in search of a system! 😎

 

[Archlich]

The Fuji cries mobility.

Contax 645, Pentax 645(N, D, Z), Mamiya 645 AFD(I, II, III), all have focal plane shutters. Few had complained. In fact only the Bronica and Hassy H had leaf shutters.

It's just a feature. They can even build one or two leaf-shutter lens like Mamiya-Leaf did for those who want the best of both worlds.

 

[Faintandfuzzy]

Hm, I am not fully convinced. But more for economic than technical reasons.
The camera looks good by data / tech sheet. No question.
But will it become an economic success?
I don't think so.
Because I well remember an interview with the Hasselblad CEO concerning the size of the global digital medium format market. He said that the whole global market is only about 5,000 sold units p.a.. And it is significantly declining, too. As the whole digital camera market.
That market size is extremely tiny. A niche in the niche in the niche market.

And now we have lots of (too much) competitors in the market: Hasselblad, Phase One, Leica, Pentax and now Fujifilm.
And we have increasing competition from FF / 35mm sensor cameras with 42-50 MP sensors, which cost much less.

Don't forget: The price of "less than 10,000$" is only for the camera with standard lens. To fully exploit / using this system you need more lenses. And then you will be in the 15,000 - 20,000 $ price range. You can buy a new car for that amount of money. Or significantly decrease your house debt.
Only a tiny fraction of photographers is so rich that they could afford that. And now 5 companies are fighting against each other in that market......extremely difficult for any of them to be profitable.

If you've looked at Fujifilm's financial data over the years you see that their X-system has not been very profitable.
Meanwhile Fujifilm is making more money again with their silver-halide products compared to their digital products.

Cheers, Jan

This was interesting. Price expectation for the body only is between $7000 and $9000...and with a set of lenses between $15,000 and $20,000....and your feeling is that it is therefore not economically viable with a limited market.

How much is Leica's latest body and a set of lenses again?

Thought so.

 

[HHPhoto]

There have been options in the $8000 price range that are useable in the same situations these systems will be? That is a straight up lie. Systems in that price range have been relegated to studio duty because anything above ISO 200 looks terrible for most purposes.

??? Don't tell me a liar! I know what am talking about, in contrast to lots of users here in this thread who have never worked with digital medium format, but make armchair expert comments I've worked with lots of these options in the past. Mamiya AFD II and III, Pentax 645D and Z. They have all offered the much lower (compared to Hasselblad and some PhaseOnes) price range similar to the Fuji price range and the faster shutter. It's been there.

And no, you won't have to invest $15,000 into a kit to get a system. You don't use MF like you would 35mm. You can get 1 or 2 lenses and be set.

Sorry, with all respect, but that is again complete nonsense. I am using medium format for decades, and only 1-2 lenses have never been sufficient to use the system to full satisfaction.
The main advantage of MF is the flexibility of changing lenses with a bigger format than 35mm.
And all medium format users I know who use ILC MF cams (enthusiast and professionals) have much more than two lenses.

Cheers, Jan

 

[HHPhoto]

You're not going to change his mind, his favorite topic is the collapsing of the digital camera market.

No, not at all.
But in contrast to lots of naive dreamers I look at the market realities: Hasselblad have had lots of troubles over the years and needed several new investors to survive. Mamiya, Leaf and PhaseOne had to merge to survive. Jenoptik left the market. The market for digital medium format cameras declined over the years. Despite cameras like the Mamiya AFD II / III, Pentax 645D and Z which were offered in the price range about 10,000 bucks.

And now the competion is even harder because of the 42-50 MP 35mm alternatives form Canon, Sony and Nikon.
All are going in this high-end enthusiast market. They are taking away customers from each other.

Cheers, Jan

 

[emraphoto]

it's soooo big!

i wish i really wanted it but if it don't fit in my pocket... well, i wish i wanted it.

 

[HHPhoto]

How much is Leica's latest body and a set of lenses again?

And how much are they selling of it?
I talked to a Leica rep. about it, the volume is tiny.

Again, I've said it above: The Fuji looks good, certainly a nice camera.
But Fuji has not made a big profit from their APS-C X-system so far. And in the tiny niche market of digital medium format it is even much more difficult to be profitable.

In my daily job I often have to do cost analysis. So probably I am more sensible to that topic.......

Cheers, Jan

 

[gavinlg]

it's soooo big!

i wish i really wanted it but if it don't fit in my pocket... well, i wish i wanted it.

I think it looks a bit bigger by itself because it's angular, but next to a DSLR is seems to be pretty similar if not a little smaller!

 

[brennanphotoguy]

??? Don't tell me a liar! I know what am talking about, in contrast to lots of users here in this thread who have never worked with digital medium format, but make armchair expert comments I've worked with lots of these options in the past. Mamiya AFD II and III, Pentax 645D and Z. They have all offered the much lower (compared to Hasselblad and some PhaseOnes) price range similar to the Fuji price range and the faster shutter. It's been there.



Sorry, with all respect, but that is again complete nonsense. I am using medium format for decades, and only 1-2 lenses have never been sufficient to use the system to full satisfaction.
The main advantage of MF is the flexibility of changing lenses with a bigger format than 35mm.
And all medium format users I know who use ILC MF cams (enthusiast and professionals) have much more than two lenses.

Cheers, Jan

The early Mamiya/Phase offerings are the ones with terrible ISO above 200 that I was mentioning. The Pentax 645D upon release was $10,000 before the price of lenses. The 645Z bested that when it released at $8,500 but again, before lenses. And the Pentax offerings are not as compact as the Fuji kit. I also have professional friends who have been shooting digital MF for a decade and most of them own 2-3 lenses at the very most because they own MF for specific reasons whether it's head shots, architecture, interiors, etc. They have this very specific tool for their work and don't need to buy everything under the sun for a "complete kit for everything" because you don't need a complete MF kit for everything. Not everyone is a gearhead photographer out there who just wants to have this stuff. Some people buy the stuff because they need it solely for work.

 

[SaveKodak]

And how much are they selling of it?
I talked to a Leica rep. about it, the volume is tiny.

Again, I've said it above: The Fuji looks good, certainly a nice camera.
But Fuji has not made a big profit from their APS-C X-system so far. And in the tiny niche market of digital medium format it is even much more difficult to be profitable.

In my daily job I often have to do cost analysis. So probably I am more sensible to that topic.......

Cheers, Jan

Since you've seen inside Fujifilm's books I'd love to know your data on that. I'll keep waiting.

Your failure to understand the market adjustment that is happening within photography is what is coloring the doom/gloom narrative you're pushing. Fujifilm is not Hasselblad, Mamiya, Leaf, or Phase. They could operate the X system on a loss, and it would still be worth it for them to do so because they don't 'need' it, anymore than Rioch needed to make the GR series, or now Pentax. Fujifilm could just break even on the GFX and it would make the whole project worth it for them. However, IMO, the market adjustment that has you so sour has more to do with the consumer market than the professional market. If professional camera sales have slowed it's because the perpetual upgrade cycle is less necessary. Plenty of photographer still use the 5D Mark II. There is PLENTY of room for advancement in medium format digital. This camera is fundamentally different from what's come before.

 

[Calzone]

Since the flange is so short, I'm assuming we'll see:

-- lots of adapters for obsolete MF systems
-- possibly tilt/shift adapters to better utilize the larger image circle in those 6x4.5, 6x6 and 6x7 lenses
-- we might also get "speedboosters" to mitigate the crop size of the sensor

It's going to be a fun few years for MF gear heads! Better start stocking up on those choice MF lenses... if the trajectory is anything like when mirrorless cameras first hit the market, I foresee a steep price increase for those special MF lenses in search of a system! 😎

Harry,

Thanks for posting this. I have mucho Pentax 67 glass including the 75/2.8 AL.

Hmmm.

Cal