Fuji strategy is working..

[jsrockit]

I agree from a technical standpoint but having a full frame camera ofering will help sell more non full frame same brand cameras.

I'm not so sure. You could be right, but the average "non-enthusiast" consumer doesn't really think about sensor size that much. It seems that only people who take photography serious, those who do it for a living, and those who are keeping score on DXO-whatever care for various reasons.

 

[edge100]

That should be fairly easy to do. Remember, EF-S lenses don't work work on EF bodies.

Yes, but the point is that the Canon system is designed around the EF mount. If you have a 7D, you have the option of shooting only EF glass, if you want. The EF mount predates EF-S by 15 years.

The situation with Fuji is exactly the opposite. The XF mount cannot be shared with a FF camera, and thus all of Fuji's existing lenses become useless for those of us who would be in the market for the FF camera. Fuji would be forced to bring out a second set of lenses, which could ONLY be used on the FF camera, in the absence of an adapter.

For the Canon EOS shooter, all of the EF lenses bought from 1987 onward are compatible with the 1DX or 5D3. So the investment in the system is intact. But if Fuji brings out a FF camera, it essentially becomes a totally new camera system, because I *know* my XF 35 f/1.4 isn't going to work on that camera; the mount just isn't compatible, and the image circle is too small. Perhaps the FF lenses could work on the APS-C cameras, which would be great, but what about those of us with investment in XF glass?

 

[f16sunshine]

Yes, but the point is that the Canon system is designed around the EF mount. If you have a 7D, you have the option of shooting only EF glass, if you want. The EF mount predates EF-S by 15 years.

The situation with Fuji is exactly the opposite. The XF mount cannot be shared with a FF camera, and thus all of Fuji's existing lenses become useless for those of us who would be in the market for the FF camera. Fuji would be forced to bring out a second set of lenses, which could ONLY be used on the FF camera, in the absence of an adapter.

For the Canon EOS shooter, all of the EF lenses bought from 1987 onward are compatible with the 1DX or 5D3. So the investment in the system is intact. But if Fuji brings out a FF camera, it essentially becomes a totally new camera system, because I *know* my XF 35 f/1.4 isn't going to work on that camera; the mount just isn't compatible, and the image circle is too small. Perhaps the FF lenses could work on the APS-C cameras, which would be great, but what about those of us with investment in XF glass?

Adapting lenses even AF lenses to a smaller sensor is not so unusual. Sony does it with the Alpha lenses to NEX.
Canon with the Eos M sysyem body.
Now Leica with R mount on M body. It's a pretty widely accepted way of sharing a mount.
I'm not so sure Fuji would be so shy about the idea if it meant they could bring a Full frame platform that pro and enthusiast would gobble up.
FF lenses and bodies would be expensive and adaption not likely used by those who owned only cropped sensor bodies but rather, by those that owned FF bodies and also had an XM1 or XE body in their bag as a BU.

Anything is possible. It's all daydreaming still... 😛

 

[edge100]

Adapting lenses even AF lenses to a smaller sensor is not so unusual. Sony does it with the Alpha lenses to NEX.
Canon with the Eos M sysyem body.
Now Leica with R mount on M body. It's a pretty widely accepted way of sharing a mount.
I'm not so sure Fuji would be so shy about the idea if it meant they could bring a Full frame platform that pro and enthusiast would gobble up.
FF lenses and bodies would be expensive and adaption not likely used by those who owned only cropped sensor bodies but rather, by those that owned FF bodies and also had an XM1 or XE body in their bag as a BU.

Anything is possible. It's all daydreaming still... 😛

It's not adapting lenses to a smaller sensor...it's adapting them to a larger sensor. The XF mount is incompatible with a FF sensor.

This is not the same problem as going from FF --> APS-C.

 

[f16sunshine]

It's not adapting lenses to a smaller sensor...it's adapting them to a larger sensor. The XF mount is incompatible with a FF sensor.

This is not the same problem as going from FF --> APS-C.

Yes of course that's true. I'm suggesting future FF lenses adapting to existing aps-c body. Did you read what I just wrote?

 

[edge100]

Yes of course that's true. I'm suggesting future FF lenses adapting to existing aps-c body. Did you read what I just wrote?

Did you read what I wrote??

My concern is as an X camera user, with a sizeable investment in glass that could not be used on a FF camera. The point was that for existing users, the introduction of a FF camera is exactly the same as introducing a new system. It's not an XF camera in any sense.

It would be like Canon introducing a MF DSLR. Perhaps EF lenses could be adapted (unlikely), but they're not going to fill the image circle.

 

[f16sunshine]

Did you read what I wrote??

My concern is as an X camera user, with a sizeable investment in glass that could not be used on a FF camera. The point was that for existing users, the introduction of a FF camera is exactly the same as introducing a new system. It's not an XF camera in any sense.

It would be like Canon introducing a MF DSLR. Perhaps EF lenses could be adapted (unlikely), but they're not going to fill the image circle.

Yeah, I get that but, you don't have to abandon your current system.
Besides as I said before. It's all daydreaming 😛

 

[edge100]

Yeah, I get that but, you don't have to abandon your current system.
Besides as I said before. It's all daydreaming 😛

Quite right.

The point is that it's meaningless to say that the 'X-Pro2' or whatever will be FF. doing so is impossible with the XF mount and introducing a new mount destroys an upgrade path.

FF will not happen.

 

[Kwesi]

Fuji is perfectly capable of building an aps-c xpro 2/ xe2 and a full frame body. They have pumped out enough aps-c bodies to create its own ecosystem with plenty of body upgrade paths for new and existing aps-c customers. Just like canon, many EFS kit customers never buy an EF lens. You are seeing a delay in the lens roadmap because fuji has come to realize that they can't offer an aps-c only solution if they don't want to be seen as second tier to Sony- their only real competition.

 

[Dennis.Carlson]

Imagine a full frame x100. It'd be like Fuji's version of the RX1. I'd cry.

 

[jsrockit]

You are seeing a delay in the lens roadmap because fuji has come to realize that they can't offer an aps-c only solution if they don't want to be seen as second tier to Sony- their only real competition.

Is this fact or opinion?

 

[Kwesi]

Opinion based on objective observation of current trends

 

[GaryLH]

Personnelly.. I think Fuji is going to wait to c how well ff csc is received. It is one thing to offer a compact camera like a rx1, but when u look at the bigger lenses, weight and cost factor associated w/ full frame, let alone all the changes in the digital and control path, not to sure Fuji is willing to just jump in there myself.

Ricoh to me has more reason to jump in there then Fuji...

Gary

 

[Kwesi]

When the ff Sony NEX is released it will be tested against Fuji and the verdict from the online reviewers will go something like "... although the fuji x trans sensor put up a good fight it was bested by the sheer resolution of Sony's full frame sensor." That's gotta hurt the
Fuji brand perception enough to make them offer their own version. Perhaps with their new organic sensor that is not as susctible to the wide angle lens issues

 

[GaryLH]

When the ff Sony NEX is released it will be tested against Fuji and the verdict from the online reviewers will go something like "... although the fuji x trans sensor put up a good fight it was bested by the sheer resolution of Sony's full frame sensor." That's gotta hurt the
Fuji brand perception enough to make them offer their own version. Perhaps with their new organic sensor that is not as susctible to the wide angle lens issues

Not everyone is going to jump into full frame...

Personally I don't need full frame for the type of photographer I shoot.. Ff not is the end all do all..for

Choice is good and the market will vote. Only time will tell what will happen next, but I if anyone comes out w/ ff within the year it will be either Sony or Pentax/Ricoh..

Me .... I am fine w/ what I have. Since I still shoot dslr, if I had wanted ff I would have bought the d600 awhile ago.

Gary

 

[splitimageview]

The incremental performance gain of FF is offset by significant additional cost. Of course, there will be a few that will bear that cost, but far fewer than are buying the APS-C gear now...and it's not like a Fuji X kit is inexpensive.

I don't see a Sony FF NEX at a higher price point tarnishing Fuji, any more than any other full frame does now.

 

[jsrockit]

When the ff Sony NEX is released it will be tested against Fuji and the verdict from the online reviewers will go something like "... although the fuji x trans sensor put up a good fight it was bested by the sheer resolution of Sony's full frame sensor." That's gotta hurt the
Fuji brand perception enough to make them offer their own version. Perhaps with their new organic sensor that is not as susctible to the wide angle lens issues

I, for one, wouldn't touch a Sony... they are ergonomically, and menu-wise, inferior, to the Fuji stuff IMO. Full frame only matters to those using ultrawides, those who are bokeh freaks, and those who want to use legacy lenses. Outside of that, these APS-C cameras have come into their own and offer great IQ by any measure.

 

[gilpen123]

I'll be the 1st one to get the new lenses?

 

[Lss]

Full frame only matters to those using ultrawides, those who are bokeh freaks, and those who want to use legacy lenses.

Even at a fixed print size, I want to use the biggest sensor that is practical (and affordable) enough. While APS-C is good and will only get better, the same really applies to Four Thirds and even smaller sensor sizes.

 

[jsrockit]

Even at a fixed print size, I want to use the biggest sensor that is practical (and affordable) enough. While APS-C is good and will only get better, the same really applies to Four Thirds and even smaller sensor sizes.

I agree. But APS-C isn't horrible... I get a lot larger prints from APS-C digital than I did with color 35mm film.