user237428934
User deletion pending
Maybe I just overrate focusing...
Honestly it's another limited crappy digicompact for the masses...
You can't even put film inside it!
Cheers,
Juan
Just another thread hijacked by your odd film thoughts. Sorry.
Juan Valdenebro
Truth is beauty
Just another thread hijacked by your odd film thoughts. Sorry.
That was just a joke: how can that hijack 30 pages?
Cheers,
Juan
gavinlg
Veteran
tlitody
Well-known
Well if it is a 2 year old sensor design then anyone can compare it quite easily to a P&S. Where is the justifcation for a high price? Just because the marketing hype is targetted at Leica owners?
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
Second cup of coffee is kicking in as we speak...
...
...
...
!
Yup. you're right.
coelacanth
Ride, dive, shoot.
It's funny. This camera could be 6 months away from release. We are quite heating up already, one way or another.
I'm excited. I wanna get one when it's released. I'm happy for now, and I'll shoot with the cameras I have in the meantime thank you.
I'm excited. I wanna get one when it's released. I'm happy for now, and I'll shoot with the cameras I have in the meantime thank you.
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
But you never wanted a boxer motor car and did go to toyota meet days when defending that Olympus EP-1 EVF-less design!
Compared to that toyota-specced Oly, this is that boxer motor car I was asking about. So admit, it can be done! HA!
Juan Valdenebro
Truth is beauty
No
Read the release. Fuji aims this camera at pros and serious amateurs.
That's rather elitist. A large number of people on this thread, RFF members, have stated they would buy it (if the price is right), me included.
I find your view condescending.
You have the right to your opinion. Maybe you'd enjoy an R-D1, though...
Cheers,
Juan
Good night!
Last edited:
tlitody
Well-known
When you swith to digital viewfinder you can focus through the VF. So I guess thats why you have digital VF just so you can focus manually. OH and maybe see something cos that eyepiece looks tiny. Do you think it'll be any good for spectacle wearers?
semilog
curmudgeonly optimist
As one of my teachers, one may assert anything.
1. What is your source for your claim that the sensor is two years old? It may well be, but I for one think you either made the number up, or stole it (i.e., used it without attribution) from someone else who made it up.
2. Sensor performance is not improving all that fast. In fact, a majority of the current improvements are occurring in the downstream imaging pipelines.
Again, I would suggest that you're basing your opinion on uninformed speculation, not on facts about the camera's performance or capabilities. This camera may be a dog, or it may be a gem. It may be a good value or a terrible one. At the moment, we have mainly hope and limited information.
Adding un-sourced rumors and behaving as though they are facts is not helpful.
Last edited:
tlitody
Well-known
I was quoting what I thought someone said in this thread so I wouldn't take it tooooo seriously.
p.s. There was an IF in the logic to cover the probability that it might not be. And the dog was a maybe too.
Last edited:
semilog
curmudgeonly optimist
Last edited:
jrv
Member
This thread is growing faster than I can read it!
It is contrast focus, so it will be "fast" only in comparison to other P&S cameras. It won't be in the same league with an SLR.
The sensor appears to be an ordinary front-illuminated CMOS chip (from Sony, like Nikon is using?). I expect Photokina to be drowning in back-illuminated CMOS announcements, so the x100 may have a problem when Fuji finally ships it next year.
I agree this ends the X1. For me the lack of a integrated viewfinder is a huge drawback, even if the x100 has a less-than-perfect VF - the x100 has one and the X1 does not.
I don't think this market segment makes sense for Leica anyway: they're never going to succeed in a market that quickly becomes a matter of price. Leica ought to have Cosina build them an R-D1 clone (such a camera would cannibalize a few M9 sales - though it's better than letting Fuji/Canikon do it! - and would provide a better "entry" price point for budding-and-future rangefinder photographers).
It is contrast focus, so it will be "fast" only in comparison to other P&S cameras. It won't be in the same league with an SLR.
The sensor appears to be an ordinary front-illuminated CMOS chip (from Sony, like Nikon is using?). I expect Photokina to be drowning in back-illuminated CMOS announcements, so the x100 may have a problem when Fuji finally ships it next year.
I agree this ends the X1. For me the lack of a integrated viewfinder is a huge drawback, even if the x100 has a less-than-perfect VF - the x100 has one and the X1 does not.
I don't think this market segment makes sense for Leica anyway: they're never going to succeed in a market that quickly becomes a matter of price. Leica ought to have Cosina build them an R-D1 clone (such a camera would cannibalize a few M9 sales - though it's better than letting Fuji/Canikon do it! - and would provide a better "entry" price point for budding-and-future rangefinder photographers).
jrv
Member
I gather you haven't kept up with Sony's back-illuminated CMOS advances in the last couple of years.
Agreed. Almost all of the recent ISO advances have been a result of better in-camera image-processing to deal with the problems caused by high ISOs.
gilpen123
Gil
I guess some people should get over the denial stage. I'm a mixed format guy but has checked out of DSLR already for several years mainly due to the bulk and inconvenience of lugging it around places. I still shoot more with film RFs but I must admit the RD1 has changed my thinking of what to bring when I travel, much more with the 4/3rds in the equation I can get by travelling on business trips with just the EP2 and Panny 20 1.7 and a P&S as a back-up. For professional photogs, this may not work so at the end of the day we (amateurs and hobbyists) get excited when something like this comes out in the market. I love my Hexar AF and this to me is a digital version I would love to have as my daily camera even at a cost most likely to exceed mid level DSLRs.
Paul T.
Veteran
you need to become friends with a guy called Brad over on photonet. You could play internet ping pong together.
Every time anyone talked about Leicas in the Leica forum, he would interject saying they weren't professionals, merely liked to fondle cameras, and that real photographers used the Hexar AF, like him.
Last edited by a moderator:
semilog
curmudgeonly optimist
I have.
Sony's best front-illuminated interline CCDs were already making >60% quantum efficiency (e.g., ICX085) when I began specifying them for research microscopes almost a decade ago. No CCD or CMOS device will ever do much better than 90%. That's a whopping half stop of headroom that a back-thinned device buys you, max. Then the fun-ride is over.
For demanding work we currently use 14-bit back-thinned EMCCD cameras that deliver just about 90%QE, with <<1 e- read noise and negligible dark current. Of course, they're under vacuum and run at -60 C...
Yes, the big gains are in sensor shading, full well capacity and pixel independence, suppression of read noise and -- especially -- adaptive pixel binning and similar strategies in darker regions of the image.
I'm not saying that there is no room for improvement, particularly for tiny pixels that have poor shading factors. But in terms of raw low-light performance, the best current sensors are likely within a couple of stops of what's possible, without doing things like thermoelectric cooling that would result in cameras that no one will want to carry. In fairness, I have not run the numbers for a modern, Bayer-array APS-C sensor, and I might be underestimating what is physically possible. However, my experience with microscope sensors suggests that the current state of the art is not so far away from those limits.
Yup.
Last edited:
gavinlg
Veteran
Yeah of course it can be done. My argument with the e-p1 was how could they make an OPTICAL viewfinder that accounts for focal lengths from 8-300mm? Notice with this camera it has an optical viewfinder and a FIXED focal length. I don't think it's comparable personally.
igi
Well-known
What is real?
What is unreal?
What is hyper-real?
What is fake?
... don't bother me, I'm just meditating the nature of things here
What is unreal?
What is hyper-real?
What is fake?
... don't bother me, I'm just meditating the nature of things here
myM8yogi
Well-known
This looks to be a really nice compact.
But that is the question isn't it - was this designed from the outset to be a "nice looking" P&S to attract prestige buyers in a mature market, or was it really designed as a fixed-lens professional-grade compact? The Fuji marketing hype claims the latter, so it is a question of whether or not critial operations have been implemented with speed in mind - i.e. is this compact responsive enough to be genuinely useful? Shutter delay will be absolutely key for many on this forum I beleive.
I have mixed feelings about whether Fuji can really pull this off. I still own a Fujifilm f31fd. Great lens. Great sensor. Amazing high ISO given the sensor size. Bad menu. Lack of manual controls - but these seem to be mostly addressed in the X100. It did have slow AF and therefore delayed shutter lag. Face detection (for auto control of focus and exposure) was actually great. Of course, Fuji also made some really nice dSLRs, so they do have the capability to make more responsive cameras than the f31.
Of course, the X100 is not intended as a stand-alone product, so no range of lenses. Also no DOF scale on the lens, so pre-setting for manual focus not straightforward. I would expect this in the next generation after the X100 exceeds all reasonable sales expectations.
But that is the question isn't it - was this designed from the outset to be a "nice looking" P&S to attract prestige buyers in a mature market, or was it really designed as a fixed-lens professional-grade compact? The Fuji marketing hype claims the latter, so it is a question of whether or not critial operations have been implemented with speed in mind - i.e. is this compact responsive enough to be genuinely useful? Shutter delay will be absolutely key for many on this forum I beleive.
I have mixed feelings about whether Fuji can really pull this off. I still own a Fujifilm f31fd. Great lens. Great sensor. Amazing high ISO given the sensor size. Bad menu. Lack of manual controls - but these seem to be mostly addressed in the X100. It did have slow AF and therefore delayed shutter lag. Face detection (for auto control of focus and exposure) was actually great. Of course, Fuji also made some really nice dSLRs, so they do have the capability to make more responsive cameras than the f31.
Of course, the X100 is not intended as a stand-alone product, so no range of lenses. Also no DOF scale on the lens, so pre-setting for manual focus not straightforward. I would expect this in the next generation after the X100 exceeds all reasonable sales expectations.