Fuji X100 Digital SOMETHING from Fujifilm

Paul T. said:
My understanding is the opposite. Their site indicates they've adapted a sensor: "FUJIFILM has customised an APS-C size 12.3 megapixel CMOS sensor for the FinePix X100."

The key word to me is 'customised.' That would suggest they've taken an existing sensor - which must be from an outside source, such as Sony, otherwise they would have mentioned that they'd designed, rather than customised it - and added the microlenses. Again, that's what their site suggests.

http://www.finepix-x100.com/x100/custom-aps-c-sensor

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well obviously they are using an 'existing' sensor as opposed to a sensor that doesn't exist :)

The question - if indeed it is a question that is even worth bothering about - is what sensor is being used?

given the fact that Fuji make sensors and that they are presenting the X100 as the pinnacle of their technological know how it would seem likely that it was a Fuji sensor.

Anyway its all academic - no amount of idle speculation is going to change anything - the camera will come with the sensor Fuji decide to put in it - only when they are for sale and in the hands of users can you really make any judgements

ok mild rant off
 
AA filters are used with the Color Mosaic Filter to reduce artifacts introduced when the details in the image exceed the resolution of pattern to achieve color. The microlenses increase the acceptance of light coming in at different elevation angles. It makes sense to optimize the microlens array to match a fixed lens, especially a fast, wide-angle lens.

Doing away with the AA filter cuts out an optical later between the lens and the sensor, which helps with collecting light coming in at steep angles.

This is a prototype, but I would have expected the decision to be made regarding using an AA filter before the microlens optimization could be performed.
 
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kevinparis said:
well obviously they are using an 'existing' sensor as opposed to a sensor that doesn't exist :)

ok mild rant off
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is this a sore subject? Or something we shouldn't talk about? I love the concept and imagine I'll be an early uptaker, it doesn't bother me if it's an 'old' sensor. But I don't think your etymology, as above, makes sense. If you're customising something, you are taking something that has already been designed, and produced; it is different from designing an item from scratch. You could be right, they could be adapting their own Fuji-produced sensor, but I think they would have mentioned.

The people who've suggested it's a Sony sensor are not decrying the camera; indeed, I've seen it mentioned that, as used in the Pentax K, it gives impressive results.
 
Guys- this is a prototype with production quite a ways off. New sensor, cusomized sensor, "tweaked" sensor, it might not have the final sensor in it. The drive electronics of whatever is in it might be used in the final product. Was it announced which sensor was used? If so, it has a model number.

Kodak still makes CCD arrays that are compatible with my 17 year old DSLR, drop in replacements. They are in the same series, but generations of improvemnts have gone into them- including changing the doping used. Are they 17 year old sensors?
 
Brian Sweeney said:
AA filters are used with the Color Mosaic Filter to reduce artifacts introduced when the details in the image exceed the resolution of pattern to achieve color. The microlenses increase the acceptance of light coming in at different elevation angles. It makes sense to optimize the microlens array to match a fixed lens, especially a fast, wide-angle lens.

Doing away with the AA filter cuts out an optical later between the lens and the sensor, which helps with collecting light coming in at steep angles.

This is a prototype, but I would have expected the decision to be made regarding using an AA filter before the microlens optimization could be performed.
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thank you, Brian!

that sounds much more intelligent than how i explained it :bang:
 
Here is the new GXR wide angle module from Ricoh. It claims to be "Sharp and beautiful all the way to the edge"

http://www.ricoh.com/r_dc/gxr/unit4.html

Details to be released in October.

So, we may have another custom sensor, which is also sealed from the elements, or simply an overstatement by their marketing department. Autofocus, per those that have tested it at Photokina is three times faster than their previous fixed focal module and this camera has interchangeable lenses, but lacks an optical viewfinder.

I would think that all of these companies would take a similar approach when designing a sealed wide angle system. The end product and image comparison/iso performance and the like will just have to wait, but Ricoh is another company that tends to pay attention to the quality of the end product.
 
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not a sore subject Paul - just mildly amused at the pointless speculation.

I dont care if the sensor is woven by blind nuns from threads spun from unicorn hair or assembled by mad scientists in a laboratory deep in an extinct volcano - all I care about is how the pictures will look - and that I wont discover until I have the camera in my hand and take the pictures myself

K
 
> assembled by mad scientists in a laboratory deep in an extinct volcano

I've seen work in a hollowed out Mountain, but Volcanoes are bad.
 
I am guessing someone will speculate that there are purebred and mongrel unicorns and only the hair from the purebred should be used for sensor weaving :)

K
 
kevinparis said:
not a sore subject Paul - just mildly amused at the pointless speculation...
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There's more than fifty pages of pointless speculation in this thread. In any case, I just looked at the Fujifilm press release on the X100, which states: "The FinePix X100 features a custom CMOS high-performance sensor, internally optimized and developed exclusively for this model."

—Mitch/Bangkok
Scratching the Surface
 
The hollowed out Volcano makes sense if you need a heat source for Thermo-Electric power generation, but developing sensors does not require lots of power. Running them- low power.

Besides, some double-0 agent guy from Kodak would sneak in and light up the secret Volcano based Lab used to fabricate the sensors. That is what Dr No was really up to.
 
"The FinePix X100 features a custom CMOS high-performance sensor, internally optimized and developed exclusively for this model." (press release)

"FUJIFILM has customised an APS-C size 12.3 megapixel CMOS sensor for the FinePix X100; " (website)

Those mean (subtly) different things. I hope it's the former; in any case, I'd be happy if it exceeds the quality of the X1, which seems plausible.

Edit: And Kevin, if you've read thru 1300 posts of speculation, I suspect you secretly enjoy it!


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Paul T. said:
"The FinePix X100 features a custom CMOS high-performance sensor, internally optimized and developed exclusively for this model." (press release)

"FUJIFILM has customised an APS-C size 12.3 megapixel CMOS sensor for the FinePix X100; " (website)

Those mean (subtly) different things. I hope it's the former; in any case, I'd be happy if it exceeds the quality of the X1, which seems plausible.
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i was told, in person, that it was the former. by more than one person.
 
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Brian Sweeney said:
We called that a staggered array in the 1980's.

Neat to see it in commercial gear in the 21st century.
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I recall that Fuji points some of their pixel sites off center for better DOF and edge coverage.

Brian; I have a little technical knowledge.. I see learning about sensors and being able to characterize their nature as necessary as knowing about the different film emulsions I use. You don't have to be an engineer, you just have to be interested.
 
malland said:
Is that correct, that the X100 will use a Sony sensor?
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I hope that this is true (because Sony's sensors are really really good), and I've seen people say it on the web.

But I've seen nothing remotely resembling an authoritative or verifiable source stating that this is so.
 
tom.w.bn said:
I assume the high iso performance of the X100 will be much better than that of the M8. Even my old 40D performed better at high iso (>640) than the M8 and when the chip is newer than this could be a good reason to buy the x100 over the M8.
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The Pentax K-x (which uses a Sony sensor) is only about a stop behind the D-700 in low light performance. If a similar configuration was used in the X100 it would be a lot better in low light than the M8, and it might well be better than the M9.
 
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