Fujifilm X-Pro1 details leaked!!!

Leigh Youdale said:
Next, if you want a quality camera you'll need to pay for it, including the R&D and the fact that you're part of a niche RF market where volumes are going to be low and the overhead and setup costs for a new camera are spread across a smaller sales spectrum. Fuji does not have the market dominance of Nikon or Canon .
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Fuji is not a small company, they're probably quite a bit larger than Nikon, which is a very small company. Fuji's camera sales are less than Nikon's by quite a bit, but they're still a much larger business by virtue of being involved in a much larger range of products, many unrelated to photography (like medical equipment and industrial chemicals). Fuji's low camera sales are their own fault; they choose to make them in small numbers and they choose to not market them effectively. I don't see why I should pay for their laziness.

Leigh Youdale said:
OK. The rant is over, but before you express your disappointment that the XPro-1 isn't affordable for you or doesn't have your favourite or most desired feature, reflect on how much it does offer and how it's shifted the game on RF design for the future. Your dream camera might just be a year or two away but dummy spitting (it hasn't got a phone built in - it's a deal breaker) and criticising negatively isn't doing anything for anybody - unless it makes you feel better.
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I disagree completely. In a free market, as we have in the USA, and as you do in Australia, and as they do in Fuji's homeland, negative criticism of products is vitally important to the function of the market. VITALLY IMPORTANT.

Criticism by consumers can and very often DOES cause prices to drop, quality to improve, and changes in product design/function/features. If those who are disappointed with the new Fuji camera just sit down and shut up, all that will be accomplished is higher prices, lower quality, and corporate indifference to the needs and wants of their customers. I do not see how that benefits anyone, least of all you if you intend to actually buy this camera.

WE are in charge here. Fuji (and all other camera makers) wants what we have: Our money. Don't just throw it at them, make them work for it. The constant price increases that Leica, to show an extreme example, keeps imposing on us have happened because we've let them because too many people have been too stupid to exercise the power of the purse that every one of us has to force businesses to give us quality products at prices that are reasonable.
 
Spyro said:
Same. I dont even like rangefinder focusing, I'm into rangefinder cameras mainly for the lenses and the overall size of the system.
Contax G2 and Hexar AF are perfect for me.
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If you really don't like rangefinders, check out the Olympus OM system. A top-level OM body, the OM-4T, is only about $400 in magnificent condition. Its SMALLER than a Leica M body, has FAR better metering, isn't a rangefinder, has incredibly sharp lenses that are CHEAP. I have three of them and a bunch of OM lenses.
 
Chriscrawfordphoto said:
I disagree completely. In a free market, as we have in the USA, and as you do in Australia, and as they do in Fuji's homeland, negative criticism of products is vitally important to the function of the market. VITALLY IMPORTANT.

Criticism by consumers can and very often DOES cause prices to drop, quality to improve, and changes in product design/function/features. If those who are disappointed with the new Fuji camera just sit down and shut up, all that will be accomplished is higher prices, lower quality, and corporate indifference to the needs and wants of their customers. I do not see how that benefits anyone, least of all you if you intend to actually buy this camera.

WE are in charge here. Fuji (and all other camera makers) wants what we have: Our money. Don't just throw it at them, make them work for it. The constant price increases that Leica, to show an extreme example, keeps imposing on us have happened because we've let them because too many people have been too stupid to exercise the power of the purse that every one of us has to force businesses to give us quality products at prices that are reasonable.
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The flip side is that Fuji is likely aiming at a target market that doesn't need some features, and has the pockets to pay for what they are offering.

As for Leica, the price increases were bound to happen what with the rise in rare earth prices. Also, it so happens that a new market in China sprung up and outnumber most other markets and thus other markets started falling in terms of importance.
 
Chriscrawfordphoto said:
I disagree completely. In a free market, as we have in the USA, and as you do in Australia, and as they do in Fuji's homeland, negative criticism of products is vitally important to the function of the market. VITALLY IMPORTANT. [...] WE are in charge here. Fuji (and all other camera makers) wants what we have: Our money. Don't just throw it at them, make them work for it. The constant price increases that Leica, to show an extreme example, keeps imposing on us have happened because we've let them because too many people have been too stupid to exercise the power of the purse that every one of us has to force businesses to give us quality products at prices that are reasonable.
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However, some proposals, such as the often-asked-for $2000 full-frame digital rangefinder, are just not reasonable themselves.

It's not that companies don't make them because they're evil, or because they're greedy. They don't make $2000 full-frame rangefinders because it's just not a realistic way to make money. Wishful thinking by a small group of people heavily invested in legacy lenses doesn't make it any more realistic.

This camera here at $1500 to $1700 or so is what is realistic at the moment. People who want more need to either wait, or adjust their expectations.

Full frame is overrated anyway. If you don't have legacy lenses, you don't need full frame; and if you do have legacy lenses, you're less likely to buy new lenses, and hence uninteresting for manufacturers.
 
NazgulKing said:
As for Leica, the price increases were bound to happen what with the rise in rare earth prices. Also, it so happens that a new market in China sprung up and outnumber most other markets and thus other markets started falling in terms of importance.
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I don't think the price increases have much to do with the rare earth prices, other kinds of electronics weren't really affected by those (Thai floods notwithstanding). It has more to do with the fact that the luxury buyer segment, while small, is as affluent as ever and is scooping up the small production runs of Leica products as fast as they can make them.

Next time you want to buy a Leica product, remember that you're competing with Brad Pitt and Seal.
 
Chriscrawfordphoto said:
If you really don't like rangefinders, check out the Olympus OM system. A top-level OM body, the OM-4T, is only about $400 in magnificent condition. Its SMALLER than a Leica M body, has FAR better metering, isn't a rangefinder, has incredibly sharp lenses that are CHEAP. I have three of them and a bunch of OM lenses.
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yes I know, I have an OM system with 5 lenses and still shoot it occasionally, it's awesome. I generally prefer mirrorless with a really good AF system like the Hexar's which is my main film shooter. If I could couple it with interchangeable lenses I think my quest would be over. Fuji is getting dangerously close here, but still no cigar (and to be perfectly honest I'm not sure I want the quest to be over, its been kinda fun ;))
 
Chriscrawfordphoto said:
Fuji is not a small company, they're probably quite a bit larger than Nikon, which is a very small company. Fuji's camera sales are less than Nikon's by quite a bit, but they're still a much larger business by virtue of being involved in a much larger range of products, many unrelated to photography (like medical equipment and industrial chemicals). Fuji's low camera sales are their own fault; they choose to make them in small numbers and they choose to not market them effectively. I don't see why I should pay for their laziness.

...........Chris, you've actually made the point for me but see it in a different light. Fuji's photographic business is smaller, true, but in overall size they are big. It's not their fault and it's not laziness. It's a strategy called diversification when you don't put all your eggs in one basket. It's a choice they've made about the way they structure their business. They're not just about cameras.

I disagree completely. In a free market, as we have in the USA, and as you do in Australia, and as they do in Fuji's homeland, negative criticism of products is vitally important to the function of the market. VITALLY IMPORTANT.

...........Chris, criticism that makes a point is important as you say. Criticism which is just emotive venting, and which I see too much of in RFF threads when a new camera comes out, is just immature and no help to anyone. Talk about what you'd like to see in an upgrade but don't just do a dummy-spit without contributing to what that might be just sucks the energy from what should be a rational and productive debate. (I'm not directing this at you "you" by the way).

Criticism by consumers can and very often DOES cause prices to drop, quality to improve, and changes in product design/function/features. .......

.......That's very indirect. The impact on projected sales revenue driven by technology and competitor actions are the more likely triggers for these.

If those who are disappointed with the new Fuji camera just sit down and shut up, ,,,,,

,,,,, and I'm saying some of them should just do that because they offer nothing positive.

........all that will be accomplished is higher prices, lower quality, and corporate indifference to the needs and wants of their customers. I do not see how that benefits anyone, least of all you if you intend to actually buy this camera.

....... well, there are competing camera designs and companies which play a large part in achieving corrections what you outline here.

WE are in charge here. Fuji (and all other camera makers) wants what we have: Our money. Don't just throw it at them, make them work for it. The constant price increases that Leica, to show an extreme example, keeps imposing on us have happened because we've let them because too many people have been too stupid to exercise the power of the purse that every one of us has to force businesses to give us quality products at prices that are reasonable.
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...... I think we could have a long philosophical argument about this. Your argument is self defeating simply by the fact that enough people have enough spending money and exercise their choices in a way that rewards their expectations, that individual actions here are insignificant in the overall scheme of things. The fact that you disagree with those choices or the way others spend their discretionary income has no bearing or influence at all - it's just a personal position and opinion. You can vote your dollars in any direction you want. It won't make a jot of difference to what others decide to do - especially whether I decide to buy this camera or not. Actually I've decided not to because although I like the sound of it and the increased range of lenses they are planning, I still take B&W film in the main and the cameras I have satisfy me. I don't need to spend $3500 dollars or more on a new kit. If I was cutting back to one camera, however, I'd have to rethink that decision. By that stage though the X10 might be all I'd need anyway!
 
rxmd said:
However, some proposals, such as the often-asked-for $2000 full-frame digital rangefinder, are just not reasonable themselves.
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Even the $7000 M9 still has considerable difficulties with certain lenses at the wide end. As this fact began to sink in on me, I realized that I was in too deep over my head, and decided to adjust my expectations and partially cash out of the M system. I am very happy now with a neato-cool M film kit and a neato-cool M crop kit, and have given up my expectations for full frame M mount.

I still guard enthusiasm and hope that some combination of Zeiss, Cosina and Fuji will get together to produce an affordable, updated crop-factor M mount manual focus digital rangefinder, incorporating some novel technologies while keeping the essential simplicity of the RF.

If cost/performance ratio is your highest priority, and "performance" is determined by output, you will have to go where the market segment is large enough to bring costs down: that means either the DSLR or the future.

If "performance" is determined by factors such as VF framing, form factor, focus mechanism, etc. etc., you may have to accept the price increase that corresponds to a smaller niche market.

If "performance" is determined by "status"--and let's recognize that this may not be simply a vanity consideration, but may also have to do with subject interaction--a luxury brand is the only option.
 
uhoh7 said:
The nex EVF is actually extremely good for focusing with highspeed RF glass, and fast when you get used to it. I use the mag for high speed stuff,
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I don't have the EVF for my NEX-5N yet (it's a lot of money considering the price of the body+lens kit), so can't comment on that. (I'm thinking about buying it and really hope it will give some improvement also in manual focusing.) With the rear screen, however, I have found the opposite. The magnification is great for anything slow and static, but not really usable when you have very little time and need to compose while focusing. I was hoping the focus peaking would help there, which is not really the case. It's a good help in the magnified mode, unreliable in normal view.

User experience of course is always a personal thing.
 
I can't access the video right now, but if I remember correctly there was a separate menu for sounds. When she was at the section with silent mode she mentioned shutter options.

Probably wishful thinking on my part. Time will tell.
 
j.scooter said:
I can't access the video right now, but if I remember correctly there was a separate menu for sounds. When she was at the section with silent mode she mentioned shutter options.

Probably wishful thinking on my part. Time will tell.
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nah dont hold your breath... how many metal focal plane shutters do you know that are silent?
you can hear the shutter sound on the video, it sounds a bit like a bessa
 
It's an M9. No, it's not an M9.

It's cheap! No, it's expensive!

It's an RF. No, it's not an RF!

It's beautiful. It's ugly!

It will kill Leica. It doesn't compete with Leica.

The JPG samples are great! The JPG samples suck!

I love EVFs. I hate EVFs!

I love the lens lineup. Why don't they have an 35mm equivalent??

APS-C is great, keeps the cost down. Why isn't it full frame??

My preorder is in place. I will never buy this thing!

----

The bipolar nature of RFF continues. :)
 
digitalintrigue said:
It's an M9. No, it's not an M9.

It's cheap! No, it's expensive!

It's an RF. No, it's not an RF!

It's beautiful. It's ugly!

It will kill Leica. It doesn't compete with Leica.

The JPG samples are great! The JPG samples suck!

I love EVFs. I hate EVFs!

I love the lens lineup. Why don't they have an 35mm equivalent??

APS-C is great, keeps the cost down. Why isn't it full frame??

My preorder is in place. I will never buy this thing!

----

The bipolar nature of RFF continues. :)
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I hate lists... but then again, maybe I don't.
 
I can't wait till somebody puts a red dot on the thing, and then another person cries out it should be black!

Maybe the camera will herald the arrival of "ex pros", people who have gone beyond the dualistic world :angel:
 
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