Going to take my Super 23 out for the first time - what to look for?

[3ntreri]

I'm planning to take my new-to-me Mamiya Super 23 out for a first shakedown / test this weekend once my "starter kit" of film arrives in the mail.

Unfortunately I'm not able to buy it locally so I've placed an order for a relatively wide range of films:

2 rolls of Ilford HP5 Plus (ISO 400 B&W)
2 rolls of Kodak Ektar (ISO 100 Color)
2 rolls of Efke IR820 Aura (ISO 100 B&W Infrared)

I'm thinking of starting with a roll of the Ilford as it appears to be the most forgiving to exposure errors and I want to check for light leaks, focus issues, etc. This will be my first time using film so I'm more than a little worried that I'll get everything wrong and waste the roll and pay to get 8 useless frames processed 🙁

Is there anything I should keep an eye out for specifically? Any known quirks with this camera? How do I confirm that the rangefinder focus is correct?

Any tips for a film newbie would be greatly appreciated :angel:

Thanks

- Dave

 

[3ntreri]

Also, what kind of sync cable do I need in order to connect this flash terminal on the lens to my Canon Flash (580EX II)?

 

[sevo]

Lens side you have a regular PC flash connector. I have no idea whether and what flash connector the Canon flash has - many modern camera dedicated flashes have no plug for a flash cord any more, in that case you'd need a PC cord to hot shoe adapter.

Without a ground glass back you can only check focus accuracy by exposing film...

For IR820 you need a strong IR filter, bright sunlight and a heavy stand, as its IR sensitivity deserves a rating as ISO 3 or less - or you ignore its IR capability and expose it like plain KB21.

 

[kuzano]

Collapsible Lens Focus Helical....

Collapsible Lens Focus Helical....

I can't tell for sure, but it looks like you may have the collapsible lens mount, AND it looks like it is in the collapsed position.

The 100 mm lens that collapses into the camera, does so for Ground Glass viewing when used in conjunction with the bellows back extended.

If you are using the rangefinder, the two positions are:

bellows NOT extended from the back.
Collapsible lens in the OUT position to calibrate with the rangefinder mechanism.

If you do have the collapsible lens, there is an arrow pointing toward the locked position. To change the lens position, turn the lens portion (only) away from the arrow point (there is a catch override), extend or collapse in the helical, and lock back to the arrow point when either fully in or out. (if the lens has been unscrewed for any reason, the unlocking of the collapse mechanism, ie turning the lens counter clockwise, may result in the lens unscrewing. Make sure the lens is tight in it's mount).

Remember, in for GG, out for rangefinder.

If you do not have the collapsible 100mm (they made them), then your lens registers with the rangefinder.

As far as I know the 100mm is the only lens that changes position for the Ground Glass features.

Sorry if you know all this already, but it just looked to me like the lens is in the inward position.

The Mamiya Press cameras are great fun and superb shooters. They make you slow down and think about your photography. There are no interlinks, so every step is manual, cock shutter, focus, pull slide, re-insert slide, advance film, etc.

If you have the ground glass accessories, you can check the range finder, but GG shooting is cumbersome, so most simply burn a couple of rolls of film. In setting the range finder (if it is off, you would use a ground glass [bellows in and collapsible mechanism out], focus the ground glass on some known distances.... 5-10-30 feet and adjust the rangefinder accordingly.

If I have raised questions, PM or post back.

The source for parts and rebuilds on the Mamiya Press, Polaroid 600SE cameras is a fellow named Anthony (Tony) Sansone in florida. (not the body builder) I used to use his services in the 70's. Good guy. As recently as in the last year, I have purchased parts from Tony and he does complete rebuilds (for a price) on all the Mamiya Press camera's, lenses and accessories.

 

[3ntreri]

So my first 3 exposures were done with the dark slide still in place... :bang:
Ah well, its a learning process! lol. Anyway, I had a tilted shot all set up via the ground glass, but by the time I put the film-back in place my subject had moved and the light had changed so I ended up collapsing the bellows and just focusing via the viewfinder. *sigh*

@Sevo
Thanks for the info - I suspected it might be a standard PC jack but I wasn't absolutely sure as it seemed slightly narrower than the one on my Canon flash.

I do have a ground glass back so it's just a matter of focusing on one and confirming that it is still in focus on the other? Is the viewfinder useable when I'm using the bellows for a tilt effect?

For the IR820 film, I do have a Hoya R72 infrared filter (which I've read loses anywhere from 5-10 stops of light). So using Sunny16, I'm looking at roughly 1/4 or 1/2 second exposures at f/16?

@Kuzano
I think I might have had the lens retracted for that picture, or it might be that the perspective is off because of the angle. When I'm using the bellows for a tilt effect, should the lens be in or out?

It is definitely a different experience than shooting a DSLR! I'm going to have to have to make myself a checklist of things to remember... Darsklide out, lens out, shutter cocked, fingers out of the way of the shutter cocking lever before releasing the shutter... And that's after figuring out the exposure!

So I should be re-inserting the slide between shots? Is this because of light leaking through the shutter or somewhere else on the body?

Thanks for the info on Anthony Sansone! Does he have a web presence anywhere or a way to get a hold of him? I'd love to find another film back, maybe 6x6 or 6x7 so I don't burn through a roll as quickly.

Thanks again 🙂

 

[kuzano]

Web Presence for Tony Kreta Reserve Virgin Olive Oil

Web Presence for Tony Kreta Reserve Virgin Olive Oil

@Kuzano
I think I might have had the lens retracted for that picture, or it might be that the perspective is off because of the angle. When I'm using the bellows for a tilt effect, should the lens be in or out?

Thanks for the info on Anthony Sansone! Does he have a web presence anywhere or a way to get a hold of him? I'd love to find another film back, maybe 6x6 or 6x7 so I don't burn through a roll as quickly.

Thanks again 🙂

Anthony Sansone is heavily involved in the family biz, which is Olive Oil, direct from Italy.

web site..... http://www.kretareserve.com/

Tonys short web site with camera stuff: http://members.cox.net/gmhsint/

This is their web site and a pic on Tony and phone #. There is also a page dealing with his camera stuff, separate from the Kreta stuff.

I always insert the dark slide. More of a caution on my part so that I know the dark slide is in after I finish my last shot. The dark slide is more of a safety factor in the event of changing lenses, or mid roll changes of film format or film type.

Forgot to take it out... Wait until you shoot about half to a full roll without taking off the lens cap. You ain't a Mamiya user, untill you have done that on the rangefinder.

The lens should always be in the collapsed mode to make use of the bellows because of the extra distance to the tilts of the ground glass.

 

[Keith]

Don't you just love dark slides! 😛

 

[sevo]

I do have a ground glass back so it's just a matter of focusing on one and confirming that it is still in focus on the other? Is the viewfinder useable when I'm using the bellows for a tilt effect?

For the IR820 film, I do have a Hoya R72 infrared filter (which I've read loses anywhere from 5-10 stops of light). So using Sunny16, I'm looking at roughly 1/4 or 1/2 second exposures at f/16?

If focus on both the rangefinder and ground glass agree, the rangefinder is perfectly adjusted. The rangefinder cannot be used with the bellows as the latter modifies the total extension of the camera without any means of communicating that to the rangefinder.

IR820 has very low IR sensitivity, but is deeper into the spectrum than other marginally IR films, which adds to the variability, and its reciprocity does not make matters easier. 1/2s at f/16 sounds short for Efke - under local conditions I would not expect that to be enough except in full summer sun. If you want to use IR on spring mornings to maximise the Wood effect, you'll probably be closer to a good exposure when you start with 1/2s at f/4. But YMMV dramatically with the local IR intensity - which is quite variable and invisible (and needs a complete meter recalibration before you can attempt to meter it). Hereabouts I run out of shutter speeds with Efke and the f/6.3 of the 50mm in spring, so that I tend to use B at f/11 with four seconds and above...

 

[oftheherd]

Reference the 100mm lens in the retracted position, you should see a red "flag" in the viewfinder. That is to warn you of the lens being in the retracted position.

The Super Press 23 requires experience to learn what to do, as with any camera that doesn't try to think for you. It gets to be more natural, which isn't to say you can't still make mistakes. I too have my share of shots of the backside of the dark slide and the inside of the lens cap. :bang:

Even so, the 23 is one of the most versatile, and therefore most useful, of MF cameras. That also makes it one of the most fun. I say that of course, with total lack of personal use of any other MF rangefinder system. 😛

kuzano's suggestion of reinsterting the dark slide is useful, as long as you also develope the habit of always checking to see that it is out before a shot. I shot so many years with only the 100mm lens, that after getting other lenses, I have had to take special care when changing lenses. Just another one of those "always do" things to learn about the camera. Just like always checking the lenscap, as with any RF.

With the PC for flash, note that there is an X and M setting on the lens. If you are using an electronic flash, be sure it is on the X sync, or on M if you should use flash bulbs. It has to do with when the flash if fired. Don't mean to talk down to you, but you seem to mention coming from a digital camera use where all that would probably be automatic.

Just so you aren't confused, in for GG and out for RF is if you are using the extended bellows for perspective control. If using the GG for normal shooting and simply want exact knowledge of what is in the frame, or for closeups (using the extention tubes), keep the lens extended.

If you haven't found it yet, there is a manual at the butkus site http://www.butkus.org/chinon/mamiya/mamiya_press_super_23/mamiya_press_super_23.htm which will tell you a lot about the camera, accessories, and dof tables. That said, never be afraid to ask questions here.

 

[3ntreri]

Here's my first roll, all shot wide-open @ 100mm f/3.5 ISO 400 on ILFORD FP5+

A failed attempt at some bellows tilt (hard to do on an upside-down ground glass screen!)

My kid

Focusing a rangefinder is haard... 🙄

 

[charjohncarter]

For your flash: if it does not have a PC cord; buy a hot shoe converter; and then get a flash cord if the attached cord (hotshoe converter) is not long enough with BOTH a female and a male end. It will work in both non TTL Auto and manual modes.

There are lots of 'quirks' with these, but I suspect light leaks are the worst. The second worst is the shutter may not be correct. Waste a roll but do not add too many variables; so just meter easy scenes, develop the way the film maker says, shoot at box speed, and use as many speeds as you can (to check the shutter).

 

[3ntreri]

Thanks Charjohncarter, luckily it does have a PC cord jack - I've got a cord in the mail, hopefully it works! More importantly, I hope I can figure out how to properly expose with manual flash and no meter!

Anyway, I took the Super 23 out for a waterfront night session, playing with the bellows tilt. Shot using Ilford Delta 3200 @ 1600

The shallow DoF effect didn't seem to work as well in Portrait:

Also didn't work as well at f/32:

 

[Ranchu]

Love the look of those pictures, it's crazy how it makes those cars look like little toys. That tractor looks fantastic. Looks like a lot of fun!