'good' starter dslr

speaking of lenses...

anyone tried the nikkor 40/2.8 lens?
cheap and my favourite focal length...

i found a deal on a d80...great shape, reliable seller etc.
any comments?


It's a great lens from samples I've seen. Small also but mf. I'll say one thing though that I'm quite certain of.
I would never choose a cropped DSLR with the intention of using manual focus lenses.
Having been spoiled now Contax SLR's from pre-digital days, and now, with a 5D and 5Dii. Anything smaller than the VF in those cameras is a fail for mf only work.
For AF and just occasional mf tuning fine.
This is no comment on the IQ of cropped sensors but rather, simply the ability to get keepers without AF.
 
I started off DSLRs with the D60. It performed very well indeed. Its main problem is that being an entry level camera it depended on overly pedantic menus for most settings changes, instead of buttons. And the fact that it can't autofocus earlier AF lenses. The latter not an issue for you, the former may well be.

A note on kit lenses. They are deceptive, poor build quality, but perform not that badly. Though the Nikon 18-55 quickly got replaced with a Tamron 17-50 f2.8, mostly because of an extra stop ar one end, two at the other.

I now have a D300, not bad, but not as good as the D2Xs I had prior to it. The latter a biiig beast, poor high ISO performance - but otherwise a very, very good camera. Metering was nothing short of stellar.
 
I also vote for the D3100, being the successor to my D3000. It's best used as a responsive TTL P&S. Manual control is suboptimal with that battery-burning rear LCD and the menu crawling. The 3x kit zoom is an optical wonder. In terms of weight, the kit compares favorably with a Leica LTM/M and small prime. I also have the D300, but that's a heavy beast, made even worse with its paired 17-55/2.8 zoom.
 
I use a D90. It is one of their best bodies. For cheaper, I'd consider the D70. You can find good ones for less than $200. The newer 3100/5100/7000 bodies are superb.

For lenses, the 35/1.8 DX ($180) and the 18-55 DX ($125) are all you need. They are both excellent lenses. If you want to go wider, I'd consider the Tokina 17-24/4. Longer, the 55-200 DX ($125). The 50/1.8 ($125/$200) or 85/1.8 ($400) as a portrait length. But, these days I'd rather carry just one compact lens.

You can use manual focus lenses ("Ai" or "AI-S" in Nikon terminology) on any digital body. It might not meter correctly, but you can just take some test shots and look at the histogram. More accurate than any lightmeter. However, there is no split-image focusing so you need good eyes.

Ken Rockwell is the web's best Nikon guy. He says the same thing: any body is fine, and the two lenses mentioned. A few people will want specialty lenses like the 70-200/2.8 but these people know who they are.

One other body I'd consider is the Canon 5D (not 5Dmk2). You can find them for about $1000 these days. Something to consider if you want full frame, which some people photographers like for the shallower DOF, etc.
 
I look at Canons, Pentax, and Sonys sometimes and they have a lot of nice features but in the end it is hard to beat Nikon's very solid metering and auto-focus. I don't think the other brands measure up at these key factors. Also even though Nikon packs a lot of crap into their user interface, they do it better and less than the others. And their "cheap" cameras are better build quality than their competitors' cheap bodies.

I've had most of the DX Nikons almost and while I am out of them, my wife has a D5100 and I just got her the 16-85 "premium" consumer zoom that hopefully is a little tighter than the $100 18-55 kit zoom (which makes good photos, just feels cheap -- but nowhere near as cheap as a Canon or Sony kit zoom!).

I think the first D300 (not the later D300s) is the best value, you can find them on Fred Miranda with low milage for $750 to $800. The batteries are plentiful and inexpensive, they take all the lenses, and the finder is as good as you are ever going to get from a DX camera. But the big reason why I like them is that they have far and away the best auto-focus of any DSLR, even the full-frame D3s. The D300 is packed with AF points and they fill the frame, unlike the full frame models where the same sensors are concentrated only in the central portion of the frame. Also the tracking is phenomenal and better than anything else I've used... you can pick a running kid or critter and the camera will quickly keep up - it is amazing.

Even my old F100 has tracking but on the D300 it is fantastic!

Also the D300 is very well built and feels very solid. I used it a lot with the fine 35/1.8 AFS DX prime ($200, 50mm equiv.) and it rocks.

Other good lenses would be the newer 50/1.8 AFS G ($200) and an older AIS 24/2.8 or 24/2 ($200 to $500) - a nice conservative and not too expensive set of lightweight primes. Like Canon, Nikon is brain dead when it comes to which lenses they release - if they only had a 24/2.8 AFS DX prime that was $300 they sell a gazillion of them.

I tried the D7000 and while the sensor is supposed to be better, the build quality is more akin to a D90 than a D300. Also the menus bloated out to be nearly endless. I suspect the next D800 is going to become a bloated pig of options and video and crap loaded on....

I could use the D300 to ISO 800 for color and 1600-3200 for B&W.

If you want a lighter weight version the D90 (>$600) is pretty much the best option but the AF isn't as good. Lighter though! Same sensor as the D300.

If you want to save money and drop a couple stops of usable ISO, the D200 (>$450-500) and D80 (>$350) are fine cameras with the same sensor. I limited them to ISO 400 for color and 800 for B&W. I think the D200 is quite nice actually, it was the last of the crisp CCD sensors and it has a unique image quality that converts to B&W well. The D80 is solid but the metering can be "bright" and you have to pay attention to exposure more than usual.

I have D70 stuff in my portfolio that still holds up fine but it is hard to use it for color above ISO 400 ~ for B&W you can call noise grain and accept 800. They can be found cheap, like $200, but you can find $300 D80s and the LCD is twice as large. The D70 now feels retro whilst the D80 still feels like a contemporary camera.

It is nice to pick up a D70 though - very simple menus, 6mp files are fast to move around, it is almost like a Lomo in its simplicity compared to the latest bloatware.

The kit zoom they released with the D70 - the 18-70 AFS DX - is a nice solid inexpensive consumer zoom without faults. The newer kit zooms have VR and such but aren't built as well for the money.

I'd try to avoid the D50, D40, D60, D3000, D5000 models as they were the most consumer-price point orientated models and crippled or cheapened in someway. The current D3100, D5100 models are nice and have a lot of features but only use the AFS lenses if you want proper AF and metering. I think that is fine for the family snapshooter but not so much for someone who is going to want control.

In the end? Well never look through a full-frame camera and you'll be happy. The damn F100 ($200 35mm film) and D700 FX ($2000) don't offer much more... other than a great view. It is just hard to go back to the tiny finder afterwards. For that matter, the EVF in the newer m4/3s and Sonys, etc. is nice - I think the EVF in the cheap, venerable Panasonic G1 is in a lot of ways better than that of a DX optical finder. That's why the D5100 with the swinging tilting LCD and Live View is a more viable camera for my wife (and for me to grab).

So basically I pontificated for 30 minutes only to arrive at the conclusion that the DX APS finders suck... ;-/
 
I'd try to avoid the D50, D40, D60, D3000, D5000 models as they were the most consumer-price point orientated models and crippled or cheapened in someway.

The D50 was full-featured apart from being all-plastics - it even drives the old "screwdriver" AF-D lenses. That probably cut into their more up-market model sales, so the D40 and D60 were more significantly crippled - these really are the ones to avoid. The D5000 (and less so the D3000) got more accessible and fully featured again.
 
I recently sold my D200 and bought a D7000: a really fantastic camera in combination with the 35/1.8dx lens. That would be my recommendation, though it seems that the recent floods in Thailand have made Nikon prices rise sharply.
 
It's a great lens from samples I've seen. Small also but mf. I'll say one thing though that I'm quite certain of.
I would never choose a cropped DSLR with the intention of using manual focus lenses.
Having been spoiled now Contax SLR's from pre-digital days, and now, with a 5D and 5Dii. Anything smaller than the VF in those cameras is a fail for mf only work.
For AF and just occasional mf tuning fine.
This is no comment on the IQ of cropped sensors but rather, simply the ability to get keepers without AF.

the new lens is a 40/2.8 micro and it auto focusses.
 
The 16-85/4 Nikkor is a nice lens. However it is huge. I use it 99% of the time on a tripod, but I would never carry it around... especially in public.
 
Lots of good info above like the link to Ken Rockwell. I shot with a D70s and a Sigma 18 to 125 zoom as well as a Nikon 50mm 1.8. I bought the camera in 2005. I needed more pixels so I upgraded last spring to a used D300 from Henrys outlet store for $790. It had only 1,200 actuations. Kept the same lenses. The D70s was great but there is a noticeable difference in the quality with the D300. I sold the D70s for $175 via Craigslist. It had 35,000 actuations.

There are lots of used D80s and D90s around. The D90 looks good. It's nice and light.

Good luck!
 
between a d90 and a d200, which would you choose?

For most people the answer is D90. D200 sensor similar to that of D80 (ie noisy). Can't think of many reasons to choose D200 over D90, unless you have a need for better weather sealing and have older non-CPU lenses that you want the metering to work with, and don't mind the extra size, weight and smaller LCD.
 
For starters I would always recommend nikons offering better. Any of the low end models does fine and will give you great results. Lenses like the 35/1.8 and 50/1.8 are great cheap lenses too..
 
back alley,when you're ready to buy a D90,drop me a message.I have mint one with less than 2000 shutter actuations for a good price.Still has about a year of Canadian warranty left on it.
 
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