Roger Hicks
Veteran
semilog
curmudgeonly optimist
There's a great Elvis Costello song by that title, as I'm sure you know.
robklurfield
eclipse
Sorry to hear about this.
Anil, I'm curious what town or station was this at?
Was the person harassing you any kind of an official with credentials or just a concerned citizen/civilian idiot?
I shoot on NJ Transit trains, platforms, Penn Station ... wherever. This was shot a week or two ago between Convent Station and Morristown. I haven't been harassed, but that must be a matter of both luck (meaning it simply hasn't happened yet) and perhaps profiling (if I cut my hair but left my beard, I figure I'd look more like a terrorist and less like an aging hippie). If an authority asks me to stop, I stop.
I was on my bicycle yesterday, stopped at the side of a road in Morristown about to pull my camera out of my bag to shoot a discarded high-heeled shoe when a police officer pulled along side me in his squad car to ask if I was okay. Probably, he assumed I was heart attack material and was afraid for my health. I thanked him and he rolled on. As he pulled alongside me, I was thinking what I'd say if treated me with suspicion. He didn't. Guess I don't look as suspicious as did in my younger days. I caught up with him a mile later as he was tucked in behind some hedges to nab speeders.
The 9/11 attacks succeeded in turning an entire generation of Americans paranoid. Sometimes the paranoia is probably a good thing (ie, if I saw an abandoned suitcase on a train platform, I'd speak up about it); often, it's nothing but paranoia without a purpose, justification or benefit.
I am sorry for our loss of innocence and our loss of freedoms. It's a pity that we worry about carrying cameras in public places. (Used to be you worried if you had a nice one that a mugger might target you; now we worry about police targeting us. So very, very strange.)
Meanwhile, everyone else everywhere in public has a 5 or 8 mp camera built into their cellphones and I've never seen anyone questioned about "what are you doing with that phone?" We live in strange times.
Anyway, Anil, I am sorry that you suffered this treatment and that it makes you afraid to take pictures at a train station.
To show how ridiculous this country is becoming, I understand that the local authorities in Tampa, FL are establishing rules for the area surrounding this summer's Republican National Convention. Allegedly, they are banning items like squirt guns and pieces of string more than 13 inches in length, BUT THEY ARE NOT banning real guns. Perhaps we should be more afraid of ourselves.
Anil, I'm curious what town or station was this at?
Was the person harassing you any kind of an official with credentials or just a concerned citizen/civilian idiot?
I shoot on NJ Transit trains, platforms, Penn Station ... wherever. This was shot a week or two ago between Convent Station and Morristown. I haven't been harassed, but that must be a matter of both luck (meaning it simply hasn't happened yet) and perhaps profiling (if I cut my hair but left my beard, I figure I'd look more like a terrorist and less like an aging hippie). If an authority asks me to stop, I stop.
I was on my bicycle yesterday, stopped at the side of a road in Morristown about to pull my camera out of my bag to shoot a discarded high-heeled shoe when a police officer pulled along side me in his squad car to ask if I was okay. Probably, he assumed I was heart attack material and was afraid for my health. I thanked him and he rolled on. As he pulled alongside me, I was thinking what I'd say if treated me with suspicion. He didn't. Guess I don't look as suspicious as did in my younger days. I caught up with him a mile later as he was tucked in behind some hedges to nab speeders.
The 9/11 attacks succeeded in turning an entire generation of Americans paranoid. Sometimes the paranoia is probably a good thing (ie, if I saw an abandoned suitcase on a train platform, I'd speak up about it); often, it's nothing but paranoia without a purpose, justification or benefit.
I am sorry for our loss of innocence and our loss of freedoms. It's a pity that we worry about carrying cameras in public places. (Used to be you worried if you had a nice one that a mugger might target you; now we worry about police targeting us. So very, very strange.)
Meanwhile, everyone else everywhere in public has a 5 or 8 mp camera built into their cellphones and I've never seen anyone questioned about "what are you doing with that phone?" We live in strange times.
Anyway, Anil, I am sorry that you suffered this treatment and that it makes you afraid to take pictures at a train station.
To show how ridiculous this country is becoming, I understand that the local authorities in Tampa, FL are establishing rules for the area surrounding this summer's Republican National Convention. Allegedly, they are banning items like squirt guns and pieces of string more than 13 inches in length, BUT THEY ARE NOT banning real guns. Perhaps we should be more afraid of ourselves.
semilog
curmudgeonly optimist
Lord Nikon
Shoots Leica
From what I have found with a quick Google search - NON COMMERCIAL photography is allowed in, around, and of NJT property as long as its somewhere your normally allowed to be.
http://www.nppa.org/news_and_events/news/2006/01/njt.html
http://www.thejoekorner.com/njt-photo-permit.shtm
It seems that they did start thinking about an outright ban, but it got shot down.
There is always the chance that the google is wrong so I'd also contact the NJT and ask for a copy of their photography policy if you REALLY care. I could not find it on their website.
Phil_F_NM
Camera hacker
You are indeed allowed to take photos on NJ Transit platforms and in stations. The PATH does not allow it, possibly due to the inter-state jurisdiction issues that could occur and also due to any potential risks to the tunnel system under the river.
http://www.nycsubway.org/faq/photopermits.html
Phil Forrest
http://www.nycsubway.org/faq/photopermits.html
Phil Forrest
Gumby
Veteran
I'd suspect that he never called the cops. He was just blowing smoke... hot air. I also suspect he did not stand there waiting for the cops like you did.
robert blu
quiet photographer
Phil_F_NM
Camera hacker
Yes, the world saw that a year ago, a cell phone was far more dangerous to a regime than a dedicated digital or film camera. I doubt there were any photographers in Tarhir Square February, 2011, shooting with a Rolleiflex.
Phil Forrest
Phil Forrest
Ken Ford
Refuses to suffer fools
Railroad photography is my main pursuit. We've been running into problems like this for years now - it's really put a damper on my shooting because I simply don't want the hassle. And I'm an officer with my county's equivalent of Homeland Security!
Bob Michaels
nobody special
I have been stopped and told numerous times that I cannot photograph trains in Cuba. One does not debate these situations with the Cuban National Police.
But, if I buy a ticket and board the train, the engineer lets me ride in the cab and photograph everything inside. They have even let me operate the train. I guess I did not act like I was going to hijack it to Miami.
Ezzie
E. D. Russell Roberts
A few months ago I got profiled with the opposite result. At the time I thought it was funny, in the strange sense. I´m halfish Norwegian. Blond when young even. But have dark hair and brown eyes and rather golden complexion. Not your typical Norwegian, especially not in the dark. I stood outside an office building, early evening - but being Norway in mid winter - it was pitch black. My Leica on a monopod, using maybe 2-3 minutes to get a shot (standing on the pavement), and security van pulls up rather abruptly. The driver asks me what I´m doing. I answer him I´m taking a picture. He looks me up and down, and says I don´t fit the profile, can´t be too careful, bla, bla, bla and drives off.
I was left thinking, should I get annoyed or not? Obvious racial prejudice, even though not to my disadvantage. I did get angry, but too late to say so.
I was left thinking, should I get annoyed or not? Obvious racial prejudice, even though not to my disadvantage. I did get angry, but too late to say so.
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
Bill Clark
Veteran
Couple years ago a photog friend and I were downtown Minneapolis making photos. Eventually we got to Hennepin County Government Center and I suggested to my friend we obtain permission first. Nice view of Minneapolis City Hall from the 2nd floor of the Government Center! I had 1 camera bag with a tripod on top.
I walked over to a State Police Officer and explained what we wanted to do and would he give us permission? He took us around to some areas that he thought would make good photos, I remember him pointing out a large U.S.A. flag he thought could be used in our photos.
We had a nice conversation and when all was said and done he said, "enjoy your photography here. Oh, and by the way, thanks for asking permission before setting up."
I thanked him and we enjoyed our experience. We treated him like we wanted to be treated. Maybe it's Minnesota nice!
What's the moral of the story?
I walked over to a State Police Officer and explained what we wanted to do and would he give us permission? He took us around to some areas that he thought would make good photos, I remember him pointing out a large U.S.A. flag he thought could be used in our photos.
We had a nice conversation and when all was said and done he said, "enjoy your photography here. Oh, and by the way, thanks for asking permission before setting up."
I thanked him and we enjoyed our experience. We treated him like we wanted to be treated. Maybe it's Minnesota nice!
What's the moral of the story?
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
I lived in Minneapolis for almost two decades; moved almost two years ago. I asked in government buildings, and only once was I allowed.
I have tanned skin.
Bill Clark
Veteran
I'll give you one more example.
I was hired to be the photographer at a upscale/fancy wedding in a Catholic Church downtown Minneapolis. Usually I attend the rehearsal. During the rehearsal, the coordinator from the Church made sure she informed me that no pictures are to be taken during the wedding ceremony. OK by me.
The Priest for the ceremony arrives and he makes a bee-line toward me and wants to discuss various aspects of digital photography. We visited for about 20 minutes. I said, "Father if I can help you, I'd be happy to meet with you after this wedding." He said, "no, that's not necessary, you gave me adequate information already!"
I gave him my business card just in case he had questions. Then I said, this is the Pastor of the Church, "Father what's your policy on photography during the wedding ceremony?" He said, "you can do whatever you want to do! Just check with the bride for what you want to do."
Smiles & the wedding was lots of fun!
I was hired to be the photographer at a upscale/fancy wedding in a Catholic Church downtown Minneapolis. Usually I attend the rehearsal. During the rehearsal, the coordinator from the Church made sure she informed me that no pictures are to be taken during the wedding ceremony. OK by me.
The Priest for the ceremony arrives and he makes a bee-line toward me and wants to discuss various aspects of digital photography. We visited for about 20 minutes. I said, "Father if I can help you, I'd be happy to meet with you after this wedding." He said, "no, that's not necessary, you gave me adequate information already!"
I gave him my business card just in case he had questions. Then I said, this is the Pastor of the Church, "Father what's your policy on photography during the wedding ceremony?" He said, "you can do whatever you want to do! Just check with the bride for what you want to do."
Smiles & the wedding was lots of fun!
Bill Clark
Veteran
Gabriel,
Sorry for your experience.
There is a technique to this.
People are different creatures.
I teach how to communicate and use leadership principles when dealing with people and clients.
My next class is on April 30th with our TCPPA.
Have a great week.
Sorry for your experience.
There is a technique to this.
People are different creatures.
I teach how to communicate and use leadership principles when dealing with people and clients.
My next class is on April 30th with our TCPPA.
Have a great week.
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
Sometimes, no matter how well-spoken you are, how incredibly amicable you can be, people have already made their minds up, and the experience of those who are different cannot possibly be experienced by those who are not.
Always, always, always, when I would relate my experiences to the "natives" they would be in disbelief (sic). The rest of us "non-natives", when we would happen to tell our stories, would be like "I know!"
So, really, what is the moral of the story? It depends on who you ask.
mbdiesel
Established
Rob,
The incident happened at Matawan-Aberdeen station which is on north jersey coast line. The person harassing was not an official with any credentials (none that he offered to show me).
d_ross
Registered User
In years gone by I would simply tell idiots like that politely to f off or if they were smaller than me I'd forget polite. But not now, look at the Zimmerman case you guys have over there at the moment! In the current climate of paranoia and fear and fear mongering, by all sides, there is potential for grave outcomes at times like this. Perhaps in situations like this, especially in places like yours, it might be a good idea to simply yes your right, then carry on out of their sight. Sad but I fear true these days.