GR Digital V to have APS-C sensor

[johannielscom]

Because camera manufacturers need to learn that leaving out viewfinders in cameras like the GRD's makes them a half baked product. A small GR1v style optical VF doesn't take up much room at all.

'Need to learn'? Who's laying the law down for them, you? Come on Gavin, you're in a niche, even here. 😱

Those 'half-baked products' that Ricoh cranks out (the GRD series and the GXR) are giving the M8, M9 and possibly the Monochrom a run for its money.

When the Olympus E-P1 was launched you were telling me that the future EVF could replace an OVF, what has changed?

 

[Paul T.]

Every time there is talk of a new camera on RFF, no matter how big or small or if it's a successor to a previous version that also didn't have a viewfinder, a number of people find it necessary to post that they won't buy it because it doesn't have a viewfinder.

Two points

1: this is the rangefinder forum. The VF is an inherent part of a rangefinder camera. Hence it's not at all unreasonable for people to want one!

2: For all that, most people here have experience of a 28mm with a separate VF. So what's a real omission with the RX-1 feels acceptable here, especially considering the GR heritage. You can zone focus with a 28mm that bit more easily than with a 35mm, and not as many people will be obsessed with a shallow DOF. AS long as it has a shoe for an external finder, sounds like a fantastic machine for many street photogs.

 

[gavinlg]

'Need to learn'? Who's laying the law down for them, you? Come on Gavin, you're in a niche, even here. 😱

Those 'half-baked products' that Ricoh cranks out (the GRD series and the GXR) are giving the M8, M9 and possibly the Monochrom a run for its money.

When the Olympus E-P1 was launched you were telling me that the future EVF could replace an OVF, what has changed?

It's pretty obvious that built in viewfinders in compact cameras sell. The GRD is not a general point and shoot - it's a photographers small camera, and photographers like viewfinders.
It can have an EVF, as long as it's built in. Currently EVF's aren't on par with OVFs for street shooting, as the action can be fast paced, and there is still delay with EVFs.
I like the GRDs, but in comparison to a GR1v they're a half baked product - no doubt about it.

Think about the x100. Main reason they sold so many (for a 'niche' camera) of them is because of the built in optical viewfinder. People in general don't like looking at an LCD screen. I don't anyway.

FWIW I used the optical VF on my e-p1 with the 17mm lens. I didn't like using the LCD at all.

 

[jsrockit]

Pretty simple. This is the Ricoh GXR-M at 2500 ISO(!) with a Summilux 1.4/35mm attached:

I guess I'm confused because we are talking about the GRD V which can't accept lenses.

 

[nightfly]

Well despite the desires of the all powerful RFF forum, I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for the next GRD to have a viewfinder. They are now 4 models in without them and the people who actually own them don't seem to be clamoring for them.

The Fuji's with viewfinders are larger cameras and one of the main advantages that folks who use the GRDs regularly like is that they are pocketable, jeans pocketable if you don't go too girlfriend tight pants.

I would expect the V to remain pretty similar feature wise and body size wise but have a bigger sensor just doubting that a APS-C sensor could meet these needs.

 

[dreilly]

Optional EVF is a good compromise. The Ricoh GRD series has been a successful product line for Ricoh, at least based on the forum chatter and the fact that they keep pumping out new models at their own pokey "ricoh pace". Plenty of photographers are just fine without a viewfinder and LCD shooting has its place, rather like waist level finders did with Hassies and TLRs for years.

For the LCD to come into its own as a photographic tool, however, I think it really needs to at the very least flip up. So that would be my wish for the GRD V. I don't think I will get it.

 

[Griffin]

I was looking for a 28mm (equivalent) Pentax aps-c lens so that we can all speculate on the size of this camera when I came across this old rumor:
http://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/new-14mm-and-19mm-f2-5-lens-patents-for-the-gxr/
BTW, I couldn't find a 28mm equivalent Pentax lens?!

 

[BlackXList]

On a GR I absolutely do not want a viewfinder, an articulating screen or any focal length that is either anything other than, or zooms from 28mm. I don't need or want an EVF either, but if a hotshoe mount can be fitted without impacting the camera then I'd grudgingly accept that for those who insist.

I DO want it to be as quick and easy to use as the previous models, to have a step up in IQ, and to retain those GR visual characteristics that are a combination of the lenses and the internal processing so that the B/W images look wonderful.

The Sensor size, well I'll leave that up to Ricoh, the previous models in the GR series do wonderful things with what is now considered a tiny sensor, so as long as the new model retains the character we've come to expect from GR images, then I'm happy to see them work their magic with whatever size of sensor they see fit.

 

[nightfly]

I would venture to say this is very typical of the GRD user.

The speculation about the viewfinder comes from people who have never actually bought a GR and probably wouldn't consider it.

The real issue with regard to sensor size that BlackXList rightly points out is can they put a bigger one in and retain the size, ease of use and visual characteristics we've come to expect?

This is what gives me doubt that this rumor is true. Seems impossible while retaining the body size.

Ricoh has been pretty conservative with this camera and seems to get what people like about it and what needs to be improved and as much as one can have faith in a big corporation that was recently gobbled up by another I hope this continues.

On a GR I absolutely do not want a viewfinder, an articulating screen or any focal length that is either anything other than, or zooms from 28mm. I don't need or want an EVF either, but if a hotshoe mount can be fitted without impacting the camera then I'd grudgingly accept that for those who insist.

I DO want it to be as quick and easy to use as the previous models, to have a step up in IQ, and to retain those GR visual characteristics that are a combination of the lenses and the internal processing so that the B/W images look wonderful.

The Sensor size, well I'll leave that up to Ricoh, the previous models in the GR series do wonderful things with what is now considered a tiny sensor, so as long as the new model retains the character we've come to expect from GR images, then I'm happy to see them work their magic with whatever size of sensor they see fit.

 

[dogbunny]

I have to agree with BlackXList and nightfly.

I would be happy with a little better image quality in the area of dynamic range, a little better noise performance. If I had to stick a wish on it, maybe a pano mode. I really just want an improved GRD, not a different GRD.

db

 

[gavinlg]

The speculation about the viewfinder comes from people who have never actually bought a GR and probably wouldn't consider it.

True. So the GRD I own is imaginary then.

 

[shadowfox]

Exactly. It CAN be done.

Gavin,
If you were to choose between LCD in the back vs a good viewfinder, which one would it be?

I'd rather have a good viewfinder.

 

[Griffin]

Gavin,
If you were to choose between LCD in the back vs a good viewfinder, which one would it be?

I'd rather have a good viewfinder.

It would probably need a collapsible lens then to remain small.

 

[nightfly]

Like the GRD I-IV.

It would probably need a collapsible lens then to remain small.

 

[jsrockit]

I'd rather have a good viewfinder.

The GR film cameras didn't exactly have a good OVF IMO. It would have to be better than a glass window for me.

 

[gavinlg]

Gavin,
If you were to choose between LCD in the back vs a good viewfinder, which one would it be?

I'd rather have a good viewfinder.

Viewfinder, any day of the week.

 

[jsrockit]

I'll take the compromise... an internal EVF.

 

[Griffin]

How 'bout a clip-on EVF?

 

[jsrockit]

Personally, I don't like clip on EVFs. I'd rather have the LCD then. An OVF is ok, but they are annoying to use with AF cameras (though the snap function will do for street).

 

[David_Manning]

The biggest irony is that the original GR-1 managed a full-frame "sensor", an optical VF and it's not thicker than the current GRD cameras. Yet still have a space for a film canister *and* a motor strong enough to wind it both ways.

Totally agree with this statement...same with the Contax T3.

On a different note, I'm fairly new to the Compact Camera set, but I'm really loving the RX100 I bought. Yes, I'd occasionally like an OVF, but I'm getting used to shooting it like my cellphone. In fact, it makes me more likely to shoot from different view points (over my head or on the floor) than other cameras (like my X100, which I like as a real "camera" experience). The RX100 surprises me with how well it handles most shooting situations, and fits in my comfortably-cut pants pocket 🙂

For me personally, the advantages of an APS-C compact from Ricoh like we're talking about:

1) At least IQ as good as the RX100, which is frankly, startlingly good for ANY digicam
2) The OPTION of a shoe-mount OVF (even with a zoom, at power-up it'll default to 28mm FoV, so good to go there)
3) The possibility for real bokeh, especially on the medium or long end (zoom to about 50mm equivalent and have nice, fast lens bokeh would be nice)

So, it would satisfy a street shooter's need for 28mm, low-light, AND it would satisfy an enthusiast who wants to travel light but reduce the compromises.