greetings + some longwinded M5 talk + a few M5 questions.

[harvester]

my 1972 two-lug M5

as we all know - all internet roads lead to RFF when researching these things - so ... here i am.

i'm anthony, a guitarmaker from Melbourne Australia.

learned a little about photography at school in the mid 80s - on a K1000.

later i studied photography briefly as part of design school - i had great teachers, unlimited darkroom time and access to as many K1000s and 50mm lenses as you could poke a stick at.

looking for something a little different - bought a rolleicord vb at a market 23 years ago - my main axe throughout the 90s apart from a succession of thriftstore Ricoh RFs and a faithful, squeeky Canon Ae1+

long story short - i have just sold off 5 cameras, 8 microphones, various dusty, though collectable ( anything's collectable if you hold onto it long enough ) audio devices and found myself an M5 and a few lenses.

nice & clean inside and out.
135... serial.
M6 frames installed by Leica in Germany.
CLA'd in 2014 " "

the first film came out of the tank last night and i'm very happy with the images - mostly pointing the camera at my unsuspecting customers ...

these two ^ were with my 35 skopar pii 2.5 in a lighting situation that might have kept my sunny-16 skills guessing - indoors on a gloomy melbourne day with shopfront window-light pouring in and a flouro light fitting right behind the subject. ( now i just need to learn how to dodge faces in photoshop ).



i've already pursued a few things with help from the search function around here ...

its my first M and the back door has a surprising amount of 'give' - though no leaks or problems - sounds pretty normal - i'm happy there.

endless newbie queries re : M5 lens compatability - ( note the music-industry-approved-silver-gaffa on the chrome collapsible serenar lens above ) - i think i'm sorted now, there's plenty of lists out there, though i'm still unsure re the Orion 15 on an M5 - apparently it's a goer though i'd love to hear some firsthand reassurance before i find one.

one genuine issue : sluggish framlines - they flip into place nicely but usually the 35/135 leaves a sliver of the 50/75 showing, cluttering the gorgeous view. - this was tricky to search - i found M6 owners and others with completely stuck framelines and some with my 'nearly there' lines - my workaround is to flip the frameline lever once or twice each time i mount the 35. this does the trick. it's rare that there's a problem swapping back the other way to the 50 - though the solution is the same. i have my doubts whether this technique will work if i end up using the 28/90 view as i believe that the lever would be sprung in the wrong direction and be unable to 'flip' ( pinball flipper fashion ) to settle itself.

i expect it might 'open up' with use or with some usage out and about in the sun if only we get some sunlight over here - i know from experience a little heat can free up all kinds of atrophied lubricant issues in the rolleis etc though i am happy to take the top-plate off if there's an adjustment i can make. any advice or empirical knowledge welcomed !

multiple exposures - i love making multiples on my rollei and my yashica 35 - both very easy to do and i'm very keen to use the M5 this way too. there are mentions here on RFF and references to the 1973 Leica Manual instructions for doing so - as reprinted on cameraquest. i tried the method as printed and it didn't work. the film advanced noisily ( terrifyingly so ) and i didn't get to re-expose. can any M5 or maybe Leica SLR users guide me please ? do i have to actually pull down on the rewind crank ( not just flip it out ) to activate the clutch thingummee ?

i love the camera - despite the annoying frameline issue.
it was a bargain from a german collector/seller and my first glimpse through the bright VF made me gasp. not a speck of dust or haze and the framlines appear to be electronically beamed from outer space.

after still more searching the archives around here i tried adding a little strip of black electrical tape to the bottom of the VF front window to increase contrast around the meter strip and shutter speed display - as shown in my pic it's tiny but i recommend it. my VF front window had a very slight strip of silver along it's bottom edge - i understand this was a feature of later M5s but seems to need a little more shade there. possibly something to do with differing window dimensions on the M6 ?

the cantilevered shutter dial with VF speed display is a revelation.
starting out on the M5 here is going to make it very hard to play with other desirable RFs in future - especially as my eyesight is getting longer and longer and those shutter speed dial engravings aren't getting any bigger 🙂

thanks,

anthony ( harvester )

 

[Huss]

Welcome!
i have an M5, and it is the favorite of my M cameras. The spot meter and VF info is better than anything else Leica has offered.
Great shots too, I especially like the second one.
I don't have the frame line issues, but that maybe because I just had my RF and frame lines replaced by the MP version. My old RF had begun to de-laminate. My M5 now sports the lines from 28mm to 135mm (I think its that, longest I use is 90).

Kindest regards
Huss

 

[harvester]

thanks huss,

and thanks re the shots.
after shooting only rollei rolls of 12 for many years i was hard pressed finding 36 things to point a leica at in one day.

i imagine this camera suffered delamination in the past and M5 replacements weren't an option even from Leica ?
and it's considered an upgrade to most i suppose - i was happy to get 28mm lines until i saw how close to the edge of the view they are - so close as to be almost within a 10% framing error zone perhaps ?


re the frameline lever and changer :
it seems to be a delicate little mechanism.
some archived posts here and elsewhere mentioned the problem occurring after a CLA rather than before.
i can see the diagonal sweep of the frames ( or masks ? ) coming into position as the lever turns and they just don't always make it to their correct position. i'd appreciate a lesson in the actual design of this part of the M cameras if anyone can elucidate ?

here's my first exposure taken with the new/old M5 ( and serenar ) reflected in an engraved mirror in my darkened hallway.

* re any qualms people have about the size of these - i seem to be holding the body easily in one big dumb hand vertically in this pic ( against my giant german/irish skull ) seems to be tailor made for me 🙂

not sure why i look so fearful embarking on this journey 🙂

and i'm surrounded by guitars all day long so naturally i had to shoot some ...

with the skopar 35 pii

*all HP5 in ID11 - i'm enjoying climbing back onto that learning curve too.

thanks,

AP

 

[SolaresLarrave]

The M5 is the best Leica M body there is. Period. 🙂

Now... about compatibility, just avoid collapsible lenses, and if you cannot, make sure NEVER to push them in. Your trick about the one you have is the standard recommendation. IIRC, the other forbidden lens is the first version of the 28mm Elmarit... but then, that one isn't good for any metered Leica M body.

With regards to the back door, that little range is OK. Now, you should worry if you start getting light leaks...

Apparently, Leicas were designed as journalist tools, and that's why double exposures were never in the picture (bad pun... ). Don't try them. Some people claim they're possible, but if cocking the shutter makes a sound that wrecks your soul... it's probably wrecking the camera. Come to think about it... Is is worth it?

About putting a black strip on the VF silver line... I don't know if it really helps. All the metered Leicas issued later have it, because it's designed to help you see the VF data. I guess the black tape increases the contrast, and if it works for you... well, who am I to tell you not to cover it? I just didn't do it because didn't find it necessary.

Now, as the last issue... Don't fret over the framelines. My cameras get a bit sticky (at least their lines) and I survived, and so will you. Keep in mind that as long as you have a reference, that'll do it.

Now, pick up your camera and give it a big hug because of its ratcheted film rewind crank, because it's unique among Leica M bodies. That means that if you're rewinding film in ANY of the other bodies, and your fingers slip and release the crank, you have to start all over again. With the M5, you can actually take a break from rewinding because the crank actually stays where you left it ( 😱 ) . Ain't these cameras great? 🙂

Enjoy your M5, Anthony! And keep posting your shots!

 

[harvester]

The M5 is the best Leica M body there is. Period. 🙂

Now... about compatibility, just avoid collapsible lenses, and if you cannot, make sure NEVER to push them in. Your trick about the one you have is the standard recommendation. IIRC, the other forbidden lens is the first version of the 28mm Elmarit... but then, that one isn't good for any metered Leica M body.

thanks, i think i've dredged up every last morsel of info on this topic that there is. my query re the orion 15 is just curiosity - i think i'd be more likely to land a Voigtlander wide lens on the used market from Japan than spend up on the more fashionable of the russian lenses.

the near mint ( and after many years in the guitar trade i don't use the word lightly 🙂 ) collapsible serenar 1.9 arrived attached to a Canon IIb in similar immaculate cosmetic condition ( at a steal ) before i had decided on a Leica body. it's so sweet for a 66 year old lens and frankly looks wonderful against the black chrome - i also love the feel of it now that i've warmed it up and massaged it into moving freely. the Canon was listed as not working / buy it now - but when it arrived i couldn't fault it other than a bit of a dim view and a wonky one second speed. the seller had over wound the 20 exposure roll of 1960s ektachrome that was in situ and thought he'd broken something. so the lens will be a freebie by the time i re-list the body.

and the M5 with the little pii ...

i love the pii but will probably lust for something faster ...

and might look for something inexpensive and oriental in the 85 to 100mm range for pointing at my musician friends on stage.

With regards to the back door, that little range is OK. Now, you should worry if you start getting light leaks...

yup, i've relaxed about that after holding up the first roll as it washed in the sink - looking for dark beams of light across my negs.

Apparently, Leicas were designed as journalist tools, and that's why double exposures were never in the picture (bad pun... ). Don't try them. Some people claim they're possible, but if cocking the shutter makes a sound that wrecks your soul... it's probably wrecking the camera. Come to think about it... Is is worth it?

i gots to know !
it's commonly stated that the M5 can handle them ...

i love multiple exposures, the additive / subtractive equations that occur and the fun of developing them. the rollei is the dedicated machine for them i suppose, though i could use a speed faster than 500 to help keep the exposures under control ( i've just started using coloured filters for that purpose )

About putting a black strip on the VF silver line... I don't know if it really helps. All the metered Leicas issued later have it, because it's designed to help you see the VF data. I guess the black tape increases the contrast, and if it works for you... well, who am I to tell you not to cover it? I just didn't do it because didn't find it necessary.

mine might not need it - i'm only talking about a 1.5mm overlap past the edge of the silver strip. it seemed to make things easier for me, but that was a decision made after taking about 10 shots with the camera 🙂

Now, as the last issue... Don't fret over the framelines. My cameras get a bit sticky (at least their lines) and I survived, and so will you. Keep in mind that as long as you have a reference, that'll do it.

it's cool. they're something to fret about when checking out a new online purchase i suppose - not something i'm aware of as i'm out and about with the camera.

i am curious - do other people's 28 and 35 frames have bottom lines at all ? i wondered if my M6 frames have been masked across the bottom so as to not interfere with the metering info. the top of the meter strip forms the bottom line for both 28 ( and near enough for ) 35 visually so it's not much of an issue.

Now, pick up your camera and give it a big hug because of its ratcheted film rewind crank, because it's unique among Leica M bodies. That means that if you're rewinding film in ANY of the other bodies, and your fingers slip and release the crank, you have to start all over again. With the M5, you can actually take a break from rewinding because the crank actually stays where you left it ( 😱 ) . Ain't these cameras great? 🙂

it makes a lovely little 'ping ping ping' sound as i rewind, i'm not sure if it should be so stiff though - it's pretty hard going compared to my old canon SLRs for instance ... i didn't know that re the other Leicas 'letting go'

i have to say that i laughed out loud the first time i wound the lever and heard ( and saw ) the little semaphore cell 'boing' into position. such a rudely mechanical solution to an apparently insurmountable problem from the space age years.

no problem re the hugging - only problem i have is letting go of it long enough to shower or eat. 🙂


thanks,
AP

 

[Erik van Straten]

The M5 is the best Leica M body there is.

just avoid collapsible lenses, and if you cannot, make sure NEVER to push them in.

Yes the M5 is definitely a class higher than the other M's.

There is however one collapsible lens you can collaps on the M5: The Summicron collapsible 50mm f/2. You can safely collaps that one, but only that one.

It is not wise to change the framelines of the M5 as the original M5 frames are about the best feature of the camera.

Erik.

 

[squirrel$$$bandit]

Stephen has written that the Voigtlander Heliar 50/2 can also be collapsed: https://www.cameraquest.com/m5.htm

More importantly, harvester, that 12-string is THE SHIZ. Holy moses. I like to see luthiers iterating on the Fender-offset designs...what pickups and bridge are you using on there?

Good luck with your M5!

 

[Erik van Straten]

Stephen has written that the Voigtlander Heliar 50/2 can also be collapsed

How could I forget that one!

Erik.

 

[Nokton48]

You can wrap plastic "Dymo Labeling Tape" around the front end of a collapsible barrel, to keep the lens from fully retracting into the camera. This is in the original M5 instruction book. Leica approved solution.

 

[Filzkoeter]

its my first M and the back door has a surprising amount of 'give' - though no leaks or problems - sounds pretty normal - i'm happy there.

If the play really bothers you (it did me with my M2)... put little strips of electrical tape at the bottom of the door and top behind the door (you can unhinge the door and take it off for that) and it should be fine. In my M2 there's some kind of fabric at the top behind where the door is hinged, I guess it's some kind of cushion against door play... it wears with time and so the door can shift around a tiny bit. Fortunately the doors are constructed in a way that they are light proof without any felt strips 😀

 

[Erik van Straten]

You can wrap plastic "Dymo Labeling Tape" around the front end of a collapsible barrel, to keep the lens from fully retracting into the camera.

Yes, but is that tape still available? Don't forget that the M5 is 45 years old. You also have to pry it loose when you want to use the lens on another camera and collaps it. It is better to put a small rubber ring on the lens tube. But were do you get those?

Erik.

 

[Erik van Straten]

If the play really bothers you

When you press with your thumbs a bit on the "back" of the bottomplate of your camera, just to model it a bit, the play of the backdoor will disappear.

Erik.

 

[harvester]

thanks for the enthusiasm guys.

my little canon 50mm ( above ) has a halo of silver gaffa tape as a precaution against some sort of accidental collapse 🙂 in lieu of the Leica-approved dymo tape. i also have the manual and have scoured the internet long before the body arrived from Germany.

i'm satisfied with my options for lenses - it's a non-issue i suppose if you start with the M5 in mind - i just couldn't resist the pretty canon at a time when i was also eyeing off other model M bodies.

i really only mentioned the lens issue re my query about the orion 15. there are enough totally compatible CV lenses out there to keep me busy for one lifetime for a start.

that's very interesting that the collapsible heliar 50/2 is also on the compatible list. i will work towards a faster rigid 50mm in the future - but i've splashed enough electronic money around the world for one month at least 🙂

More importantly, harvester, that 12-string is THE SHIZ. Holy moses. I like to see luthiers iterating on the Fender-offset designs...what pickups and bridge are you using on there?

ha, thanks, but that's a lovely vintage Vox Tempest XII - made in Italy in 1966. jeff the owner ( pictured ) is a local player and artist / illustrator and has decorated his guitars. i believe it's all original parts-wise except for the bridge.

i still do instrument repair and restoration work as well as my own manufacturing.
i'm very keen to not appear to promote my professional work here with pictures or links but i appreciate what you're saying about design. i'm fascinated with the history of industrial design - be it guitars or cameras - that ( and reading ivor matanle's classic camera book at my local library many years ago ) is what led me to this current obsession.

AP

 

[harvester]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Filzkoeter
If the play really bothers you

When you press with your thumbs a bit on the "back" of the bottomplate of your camera, just to model it a bit, the play of the backdoor will disappear.

Erik.

ah. intersting.
the camera has been here 4 days and spent very little time without film in it 🙂 i will study the door and the rewind crank some more next time i change over.

Quote:
Originally Posted by harvester
its my first M and the back door has a surprising amount of 'give' - though no leaks or problems - sounds pretty normal - i'm happy there.

If the play really bothers you (it did me with my M2)... put little strips of electrical tape at the bottom of the door and top behind the door (you can unhinge the door and take it off for that) and it should be fine. In my M2 there's some kind of fabric at the top behind where the door is hinged, I guess it's some kind of cushion against door play... it wears with time and so the door can shift around a tiny bit. Fortunately the doors are constructed in a way that they are light proof without any felt strips 😀

well, as a repair guy ( in a different field ) i'm always looking to tweak little annoyances like this. i'm sure the door is fine. just another thing to worry about when you've received a 43 year old camera in a cardboard box from 10,000 miles away.

i've fixed a few light leaks with black electricians tape on my japanese RFs but i don't think the Leica will need it.

it goes click and moves more on the left than the right so i think i might give it a little twist with my thumbs as mentioned,.

thanks

 

[JoeV]

Yes, but is that tape still available? Don't forget that the M5 is 45 years old. You also have to pry it loose when you want to use the lens on another camera and collaps it. It is better to put a small rubber ring on the lens tube. But were do you get those?

Erik.

I bought some last year from, of all places, Walmart. They also sell plastic Dymo machines. Had to feed a hungry Dymo label maker (a solid metal version) I picked up from a thrift store.

Here's some at Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/DYMO-Embossin...&qid=1431351649&sr=8-3&keywords=dymo+embosser

~Joe

 

[harvester]

i saw an elegant solution on someone's flickr : using sections of clear plastic hose - with a slit to allow it to be popped over the barrel. no sticky stuff and hardly visible.

AP

 

[Huss]

i am curious - do other people's 28 and 35 frames have bottom lines at all ? i wondered if my M6 frames have been masked across the bottom so as to not interfere with the metering info. the top of the meter strip forms the bottom line for both 28 ( and near enough for ) 35 visually so it's not much of an issue.

Hey Anthony. I just checked mine and it does NOT show the bottom lines for the 28 and 35mm frames.

Huss

 

[harvester]

thanks for that huss.

the feeble autumn sun came out for an hour or so today and i had the 5 sitting beside me on a chair for 10 minutes ( w/ body cap, no lens ) in full sunlight. the frame selector worked like a dream when i picked it up later.

something tells me that it's going to be fine with a little use.

AP

 

[B-9]

Nice Serenar! One of my favorite collapsibles.

 

[harvester]

B-9 Nice Serenar! One of my favorite collapsibles.

yup. it's cute all right.



* M5 roll #2. fun with the serenar 50 and some delta 3200.

i'm very happy with the metering. there was a mercury battery with the camera and a wein cell - i just popped the mercury in and started shooting.

it's making me lazy though - once or twice i've realised that in quickly chasing the little meter needles i've selected a slower speed ( i hear the escapement ticking for an eighth of a second ) than i would ever knowingly select if i had to look at the dial and choose.

sigh*

AP