Ben Z
Veteran
That's exactly how I feel about it. The M8 also doesn't suffer from the "tunnel" effect of cropped DSLRS.
Me too. When everyone jumps on the M10 bandwagon and a minty-fresh M9 will cost me half what a new one would today. And the red edges and cracking sensor glass will have been dealt with.
My M8 has already depreciated about $4000 (counting the $1700 I stupidly threw away on the upgrade, believing Leica's official stance that a FF was a good ways off). It'll never go to nothing. Even if it ends up at $500 that's only another $1500. Selling it now would be like giving it away. I'm going to shoot the living crap out of it.
But I do understand Keith's position. My M8 has done a lot of shelf time since I got it. To begin with I was surprised but I still gravitated to my 20D. No IR filters, and usable JPEG's. Then I got a 5D refurb and that really put the M8 out to pasture. Only now, as I contemplate doing a little traveling again after a long dollar-exchange-induced hiatus, is the M8 coming off the bench.
ChrisC
Established
You could stop agonising and instead go forth in search of a very talented artist-photographer. They're easy to spot; hungry and looking worse fed than the poorest poet's dog! Get him or her to use the tool properly and make some exciting work. Take rent for the camera in the form of a couple of beautiful prints you will enjoy for your lifetime. The artist will feed their body of work using a tool that like-as-not is well beyond their purchasing power, and you will feed your karma like a goodun.
Just a thought.
.............. Chris
Just a thought.
.............. Chris
back alley
IMAGES
i think a drf is for a die hard rf user, if not, a dslr does the nice nicely.
if i were you i would sell it while you can still get 2k for it.
if i were you i would sell it while you can still get 2k for it.
Matus
Well-known
I would say borrow it to a friend - say for a month or two and see whether you miss it. See how do you handle occasions when you would pick the M8 - only than you can find out if you really miss it.
Still - if you use the camera for only 5% of your shooting anyhow, than it becomes a rather expensive 5%. Not to forget the longer you wait the less you get for it.
Still - if you use the camera for only 5% of your shooting anyhow, than it becomes a rather expensive 5%. Not to forget the longer you wait the less you get for it.
swoop
Well-known
A lot of M8 users are people trying out rangefinders. They change hands often. People buy them, realize they require more effort than a DSLR, sell them and move on. I think that has a lot to do with the extreme price drop.
And the M9 isn't going to be selling for less anytime soon. I dropped my M9 damaging it beyond repair, and Leica's solution was to sell me a new one at cost. Which isn't much lower than the price the M8.2's were going for new. Now I'm trying to sell my M8 to help pay for it.
M8's are pretty much the only game in town for people who want to use their Leica lenses with a digital and still keep the rangefinder feel. Some dork is going to mention the micro 4/3rds cameras. But those don't work the way rangefinders do. You get to use your lenses yes. But you completely lose the rangefinder working method.
Also, what the hell is with these 3 yr old M8's having like 2k-5k shutter clicks. Are people just pulling them out of their cabinets to test the rangefinder accuracy and putting them back. I've never known of any camera that has seen such little use by a wide variety of people.
dogberryjr
[Pithy phrase]
"I dropped my M9 damaging it beyond repair, and Leica's solution was to sell me a new one at cost."
Yikes! That doesn't seem like much of an effort by Solms. My heart goes out to you.
Yikes! That doesn't seem like much of an effort by Solms. My heart goes out to you.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
A lot of people are using them like film cameras - not like digital machine guns - that accounts for a vast difference in exposure numbers - with approximately the same number of keepers.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
peter_n
Veteran
I think a Leica drf is for a die hard Leica fan. I use a dSLR but only because the Leica digital RFs are unacceptably unreliable to me. I admit though that the dSLR does do the job nicely and at a cost that was 8% of the cost of the Leica body. I still use film RFs for 95% of what I do but I really don't see myself buying an M10. This dSLR is built like a brick and is incredibly reliable, I basically use just one lens - a quality Nikkor zoom and the pictures are great. I'll be the first to admit that the experience is nowhere near that of using a rangefinder, but for 5% of my shots I'll take it. Especially since the dSLR is as reliable as my MPs.
I think that was a nice gesture by Leica. I mean, they didn't need to offer you anything really.
swoop
Well-known
I thought so too. And I seriously believe if it were Canon or Nikon they would have either just billed me and expected me to pay, or told me to go buy a new one, or would have sold me a refurb at a profit.
So considering it is my fault the thing is busted (technically it's my bags faults. But I won't get into it) I think it was a nice gesture. I screwed up and I'm paying the price but at least it's the least painful of all options. Once I sell the M8, I'll have enough cash.
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Richard Marks
Rexel
Dear KeithI swore I wouldn't sell this camera because there seems little point in doing so ... it does nothing wrong and never really has and the cost, which seemed extrordinary at the time, is long forgotten, but ... it now seems to have taken up permanent residence in the cupboard with little chance of that status changing.
There seems to be numerous reasons for this:
The crop factor creates a re-think every time I pick it up ... the only lens I'm really comfortable with on the camera is the 35mm f1.2 Nokton so versatilty is not a strong point.
I'm unlikely to ever make the step up to the M9 ... financially it's not viable and the M9 doesn't attract me or really offer anything that makes me personally 'burn' to own one.
For the limited amount of digital shooting I do my D700 posesses the goods in every area ... the size of the camera is no issue, I just bought a Pentax 67 for chrissakes!
The longer I persue photography as an interest the less digital seems to appeal to me ... film's survival allowing, I can't see that changing.
The flip flop factor ... rangefinders constantly fall in and out of vogue for me, sometimes I like them sometimes I don't. I always like my SLRs!
My head hurts!
I have been through this and for me the D700 was only planned as a stop gap whilst thinking about an M9 later in the year (I sold my M8 for a very good price). What happened was I was very happy with the D700 and carried on with my M7 and black and white film. Im happy actually. I love rangefinders but for me it does not have to be digital. Ill not say 'never' but I cant justify the price of the M9 at the moment. I just cant accept the philosophy of trying to make a cutting edge digital rangefinder within the confines of a 1950's M body and its silly base plate and everything else at great expense. Id be happy with any digital platform that allows me to use m lenses at their intended focal length even if this means the size of a small DSLR. Im not worried about discression as digital cameras in general are not discrete at any size.
I take your point about film. The only thing is that slowly but surely the options for film users are getting less and more expensive in the UK. I anticipate that soon there will only be Illford B and W film and paper. Its good stuff of course but I loved the variety of different films and papers and developers. If it does just become Illphotography then digital is perhaps a bit more plausible. (or take up painting!). Equally like you I love medium format. However if you shoot colour you inevitably end up going via digital at some stage to make a picture.
I feel your pain
Best wishes
Richard
barnwulf
Well-known
Very interesting thread here. I am having the same feelings as Keith. I have been shooting photographs for 50 years. I hate to admit it but I think I have been a film guy too long to switch. I have a couple of Nikon DSLRs that I have had some use and they are great even fantastic, but I don't use them a lot. I started shooting with an M4 about 2 years ago and I am hooked on rangefinder cameras. I just bought a M8.2 the end of February and it's not had much use. It does just fine for me but, I am frustrated that I tend to look at the shot I just took and check the histogram nearly every time I shoot. Sure then sometimes I make an adjustment and shoot again. It just interupts my shooting flow. I just love to shoot film because it's so very liberating for me. I enjoy the look of film and the feel of it and I am afraid the die has been cast. I can't really fully admit it yet and I really hate to say this, but I think my 8.2 may not have a home here too much longer. - Jim
ashrafazlan
Established
Keith, as an owner of a D700 and M8 I can understand what you're going through. It's hard, knowing the sort of performance you get with a D700. Perhaps, if the M8's sensor was as good as the old 5D things would be different (alas, the solution to this would be to buy the ridiculously expensive M9)
It's disturbing that a few years from now when the M10 is out I'll still be thinking the same thing, only replace the M8 with an M9 and wishing it had the iso performance of the D700...
It's disturbing that a few years from now when the M10 is out I'll still be thinking the same thing, only replace the M8 with an M9 and wishing it had the iso performance of the D700...
tlitody
Well-known
Hmmm ... did I mention I have two film M's in the cupboard that aren't really getting much use either.
I put a lot of this down to my MF and LF habit ... not to mention my first choice for 35mm film generally being an OM-1 or 2.
So what was the attraction of Leica in the first place?
Sell it. Someone sold me their Leica M8 camera, did not get much use until I bought it.
It's a great camera deserves to be used.
Sell it or trade it.
It's a great camera deserves to be used.
Sell it or trade it.
raid
Dad Photographer
Yes. What Brian said above.
Trade it to me.
Trade it to me.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear Keith,
Do you need the money?
Yes = sell it.
No = why sell it?
(Take into account the effort, grief, probable financial returns, etc.)
Cheers,
R.
Do you need the money?
Yes = sell it.
No = why sell it?
(Take into account the effort, grief, probable financial returns, etc.)
Cheers,
R.
NickTrop
Veteran
Get decent money for the M8 while you can. It's an old technology. C'mon...
D5000 - overall DXO Mark sensor score: 72
M8 - 59
ISO sensitivity - about the same but the Nikon can go to 3200 ISO, it bests the M8 considerable in dynamic range, is a little better in tonal range, and is considerable better in color sensitivity.
I'm NOT Leica bashing here. More to illustrate that "Digital Leica" does not make sense (at least not to me). The "digital" model is like computers - every generation get better, cheaper etc - just like PCs in "the old PC XT, AT, 4XX days" where every year they got better, faster, cheaper. So, digital APSC cameras are "semi-disposable" commodity items. A relatively "cheap" entry-level APSC DSLR (D5000) "bests" the M8 in every image category in their testing. An M8 camera body goes for $2750 at one of the big reputable NY retailers, used. I bought the Nikon body (new but refurbed) for $470 at the same place.
The old Leica film camera model was, "you bought "the best" and it lasted a lifetime, held its value, and the total cost of ownership is justified". This model simply does not translate to digital cameras. This is like paying 4x the going rate for an XT PC with a 30 meg hard-drive back in the day that was engineered "like a Leica" to "last a lifetime".
Sell it while you can still get decent resale value for it. Cut emotional ties. Let its price fund your next four APS-C digital cameras that will have technically better image quality because they have generations newer technology.
D5000 - overall DXO Mark sensor score: 72
M8 - 59
ISO sensitivity - about the same but the Nikon can go to 3200 ISO, it bests the M8 considerable in dynamic range, is a little better in tonal range, and is considerable better in color sensitivity.
I'm NOT Leica bashing here. More to illustrate that "Digital Leica" does not make sense (at least not to me). The "digital" model is like computers - every generation get better, cheaper etc - just like PCs in "the old PC XT, AT, 4XX days" where every year they got better, faster, cheaper. So, digital APSC cameras are "semi-disposable" commodity items. A relatively "cheap" entry-level APSC DSLR (D5000) "bests" the M8 in every image category in their testing. An M8 camera body goes for $2750 at one of the big reputable NY retailers, used. I bought the Nikon body (new but refurbed) for $470 at the same place.
The old Leica film camera model was, "you bought "the best" and it lasted a lifetime, held its value, and the total cost of ownership is justified". This model simply does not translate to digital cameras. This is like paying 4x the going rate for an XT PC with a 30 meg hard-drive back in the day that was engineered "like a Leica" to "last a lifetime".
Sell it while you can still get decent resale value for it. Cut emotional ties. Let its price fund your next four APS-C digital cameras that will have technically better image quality because they have generations newer technology.