HC-110 (new formula)

Here is what I heard from Alaris:

Mr. Carter,



Customers have noted that depending on how the bottle of developer is held to the light, the rim of the bottle can cause the solution take on a “milky” appearance at the bottom of the bottle. This is purely an optical illusion.



If after opening the bottle and emptying the contents and there are crystals on the bottom, please let us know.





Patrick W. Webber, WW CNP Product Manager, WW Bus Commercialization

Kodak Alaris Inc, 336 Initiative Dr., Bldg. 5, Rochester, NY 14624

patrick.webber@kodakalaris.com 585-441-7396 Office





Which means they don't want to answer the question. I'll write them back.
 
charjohncarter said:
Here is what I heard from Alaris:

Mr. Carter,



Customers have noted that depending on how the bottle of developer is held to the light, the rim of the bottle can cause the solution take on a “milky” appearance at the bottom of the bottle. This is purely an optical illusion.



If after opening the bottle and emptying the contents and there are crystals on the bottom, please let us know.





Patrick W. Webber, WW CNP Product Manager, WW Bus Commercialization

Kodak Alaris Inc, 336 Initiative Dr., Bldg. 5, Rochester, NY 14624

patrick.webber@kodakalaris.com 585-441-7396 Office





Which means they don't want to answer the question. I'll write them back.
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I am not happy that they have seen fit to change the formula. I just bought a bottle to replenish my stocks, but mine came from Ilford, is marked Ilfotec HC and I trust it. HC110 is about £10 a bottle dearer here in the UK. I also feel that Ilford support us 100%. Try ordering stock direct from Alaris !
 
John Bragg said:
I am not happy that they have seen fit to change the formula. I just bought a bottle to replenish my stocks, but mine came from Ilford, is marked Ilfotec HC and I trust it. HC110 is about £10 a bottle dearer here in the UK. I also feel that Ilford support us 100%. Try ordering stock direct from Alaris !
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Good point, I may change to that too if they don't fix this. Also, the way I do my negatives these days is to develop, scan, and the post process with whatever editing program. So any minor difference in developers is a moot point (for me). Let me know how you do with Ilfotec HC, their products are available in the US, so no problem for me.
 
I have a bottle of the old formula split between four 250 ml bottles. When those are gone, I’ll probably switch over to Rollei R09. It’s giving me about the same results at 50-1 as HC-110 Dilution B.
 
madNbad said:
I have a bottle of the old formula split between four 250 ml bottles. When those are gone, I’ll probably switch over to Rollei R09. It’s giving me about the same results at 50-1 as HC-110 Dilution B.
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I like Rodinal for slow films, but HC110, (or Ilford Ilfotec HC) give less pronounced grain for me on HP5+ when scanned.
 
I've got about 300ml left of my HC110 older formula and when it finishes I'll see how to proceed. AFAIK from discussions around, the change is due to production procedures and being water based would make the new HC not as good for long term keeping. Interested to hear about the crystalization issues, and if it's not like in Rodinal where old developer happens to do so yet still work well.
XTOL comes in 5L packs that are too much for my amateur use but I grabbed Fomadon Excel which is deemed to be a clone and comes in 1L.



I'm a bit cheap and thus began with Dilution E and H of HC110. Development times fall at around 7-10 minutes and works well with HP5, although I'd imagine it's not the most optimal developer specially for T grain films. HC110 may become compensating at higher dilutions, but perhaps not much with Dil H.



John Bragg said:
I like Rodinal for slow films, but HC110, (or Ilford Ilfotec HC) give less pronounced grain for me on HP5+ when scanned.
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HP5 and HC110 seem to be a good combination that works well.
 
Prest_400 said:
I've got about 300ml left of my HC110 older formula and when it finishes I'll see how to proceed. AFAIK from discussions around, the change is due to production procedures and being water based would make the new HC not as good for long term keeping. Interested to hear about the crystalization issues, and if it's not like in Rodinal where old developer happens to do so yet still work well.
XTOL comes in 5L packs that are too much for my amateur use but I grabbed Fomadon Excel which is deemed to be a clone and comes in 1L.



I'm a bit cheap and thus began with Dilution E and H of HC110. Development times fall at around 7-10 minutes and works well with HP5, although I'd imagine it's not the most optimal developer specially for T grain films. HC110 may become compensating at higher dilutions, but perhaps not much with Dil H.




HP5 and HC110 seem to be a good combination that works well.
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Ilford have my support these days as quality and price are favorable in the UK. They did a free shipping offer recently and that sealed the deal for me. Great price and home delivery in these tough times. What's not to like ? I am given to believe that Tetenal made the last iteration of Kodak HC110 and maybe Ilfotec HC as well as their own Tetenal Neopress HC. They can all be used as equivalents like D76 or ID11.
 
Not sure if this has been mentioned, but I think for some time people have concluded that Kodak's published time for HC-110 dilution B is way too short. I have done some densitometer tests and find that 6:00 for Tri-X is just about perfect with a slight loss of film speed, about ISO 320.

Check the notation about the time in this rather old HC-110 resource page:

http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/hc110/


Rolfe
 
rolfe said:
Not sure if this has been mentioned, but I think for some time people have concluded that Kodak's published time for HC-110 dilution B is way too short. I have done some densitometer tests and find that 6:00 for Tri-X is just about perfect with a slight loss of film speed, about ISO 320.

Check the notation about the time in this rather old HC-110 resource page:

http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/hc110/


Rolfe
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I think everyone agreed that Kodak screwed that one up when they reformulated Tri-X. My time for Old Tri-X was 6 minutes and my time for New Tri-X is 6 mins or 12 mins in Dilution H.
 
John Bragg said:
I think everyone agreed that Kodak screwed that one up when they reformulated Tri-X. My time for Old Tri-X was 6 minutes and my time for New Tri-X is 6 mins or 12 mins in Dilution H.
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Darn, I'm 11:45 with dilution H, I'll try 12 next time, cheers John (joke). I did write to Alaris again (3 times), they need to get it together.
 
I received this yesterday from Alaris:

Mr. Carter,



The crystals are a potassium salt and the product is ok to use if the crystals are left in the bottle.





Information contained in this e-mail transmission may be privileged, confidential and covered be the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. Sections 2510-2521.



If you have received this e-mail transmission in error, please treat it as you would like your own email sent in error to be treated and

notify us immediately by return email of the error and
delete the message from your system without reading, forwarding or copying it.


Thank you in advance for your courtesy!

 
John Bragg said:
I think everyone agreed that Kodak screwed that one up when they reformulated Tri-X. My time for Old Tri-X was 6 minutes and my time for New Tri-X is 6 mins or 12 mins in Dilution H.
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Somewhere in the distant past, I remember reading that Dick Dickerson, one of the inventors of XTOL, speculated that Kodak mistakenly substituted the dilution A time for dilution B, leading to the unrealisticly short published time. Many years later, it has still not been corrected.

Rolfe
 
John, Thanks for the update.

Not being a chemist I can't get my head around the fact that the presence of crystals is okay. They are a product of something surely. Those in my bottle are the size and shape of icicles.

Does anyone know how to do a simple dip test?

Mel
 
Well, if you mix a small amount of HC110 in your dilution, then cut some leader and put it in for your time it should turn black if it is good.
 
MJ Buckpitt said:
John, Thanks for the update.

Not being a chemist I can't get my head around the fact that the presence of crystals is okay. They are a product of something surely. Those in my bottle are the size and shape of icicles.

Does anyone know how to do a simple dip test?
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John’s test is a good one for basic activity. If you want fine control, buy some process control strips:
https://www.freestylephoto.biz/1672109-Ilford-FP4-Plus-125-ISO-35mm-x-100-ft.-Process-Control-Strips
and develop, then apply a densitometer. Most flatbed scanners provide more accurate and consistent measures of density than old style densitometers made for film.

If the potassium salt in question is in excess in the formula, losing some to precipitation won’t significantly alter your results. But it is still a pretty shoddy approach to formulation.

Marty
 
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