HCB and Cropping

Not that it mattered for HCB, but how do you print an 8x10 without cropping ?

The truth is in the pudding. Most nobody will care if a negative has been cropped when looking at the final picture.

I'm guessing the RFF "street shooters" don't care much, but check out all the non-square Ansel Adams pictures, most of them taken on 6x6 ....

Cheers,

Roland.
 
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Not that it mattered for HCB, but how do you print an 8x10 without cropping ?

The truth is in the pudding. Most nobody will care if a negative has been cropped when looking at the final picture.

I'm guessing the RFF "street shooters" don't care much, but check out all the non-square Ansel Adams pictures, most of them taken on 6x6 ....

Cheers,

Roland.

Having my own mat cutter solves the dilemma of always printing to preset paper sizes! Oh, and I do crop when necessity dictates!
 
HCB cropped the 'Puddle Jumper' (Behind the Gare St. Lazare ) - in fact somewhere I have a jpeg of the original negative held over a light box, and it is in landscape format, as opposed to the portrait format of the print. But ... here's the interesting thing: the white rebate of the uncropped negs prints as a black 'key-line' around HCB's prints. This is supposed to be a guarantee of their 'full-frameness'. So far so good...

However, I was looking at my newly-acquired À Propos de Paris, and Behind the Gare St. Lazare has a black key line around it, visually implying that this is a full-frame image, complete with neg rebate.

Despite this slightly misleading effect, the photographs are wonderful.

Best,
Seán in Tipperary
 
You try to get it right in the first place by composing but often 'life' gets in the way i.e. fences or some obstruction that stops you getting as close as you want/need. In that case you crop later. Just seems like common sense to me.

I used to get annoyed when designers, editors and so on cropped my pictures for their final use - now I'm older and smarter, it still grates when you've composed within the constraints of your frame to make a picture that is (in your view at least😉) worth leaving uncropped only for it to be cropped to fit some designers twee circle inlay or to allow words to fit better around it on a page...but thats life and you get paid for it, so best not to whinge.

HCB made some amazing images and I fully believe and agree with the 'get it right first time' motto but I also don't believe that he stuck to this with every picture. I believe he tried, succeeded far more often than I could and then cropped those that needed it as lightly as he could. I think legends arise from respect and eventually partly obscure the reality.
 
I used to be the guy who cropped other people's pictures. Sometimes they grumbled, but I knew what I needed. I usually tried to be specific about my guidelines. E.g. if I needed something to run one column, I'd say so. If someone then brought in a great image that required a multi-column spread, we'd both likely be unhappy. Sometimes you can accommodate that by changing the layout, sometimes not.

To me, cropping is just another manipulation to improve an image, just like burning and dodging. I see a lot of photos that I think would have been improved by cropping. Especially street photos of seemingly random people engaged in random activity. Not to stir the fire, but what am I supposed to look at?
 
I read that he cropped the cardinal image because he held his camera above his head to take the photograph. I don't think he was using his leica either.

In the image of the man jumping the puddle he said he couldn't even see through the VF because the fence posts were blocking it.
 
After awhile you get to the point where you know what the lens coverage is, where the camera is aimed, and you've set the focus by scale because you can judge the distance well enough.
 
Here's the negative...

CartierBressonBehindGareStLazare.jpg


HCB said he ate the sprocket holes on one side... lol
 
I think this "I don't crop" thing is almost completely (and pointlessly) ego-driven.

That is, "I'm a better photographer then you because I'm so brilliant at composing at the time of exposure that I don't need no stinkin' cropping."

To that I say, "humbug".
 
I think this "I don't crop" thing is almost completely (and pointlessly) ego-driven.

That is, "I'm a better photographer then you because I'm so brilliant at composing at the time of exposure that I don't need no stinkin' cropping."

To that I say, "humbug".

Dear Dave,

85% agreement.

The remaining 15% is to keep the layout artists at bay.

One such was removed from working on one of my books because he didn't crop: he just stretched the pics in one dimension or the other to make them fit the space available. Ah, the wonders of Adobe Photoshop! I spotted it because one of the portraits didn't look right: the guy's face was about 20% too wide!

Cheers,

R.
 
Dear Dave,
...he just stretched the pics in one dimension or the other to make them fit the space available. Ah, the wonders of Adobe Photoshop!

I like that, Roger, Too bad Photoshop wasn't around when I had to worry about layout. Photographers always winced when I took a grease pencil to their contact sheets. The lesson: The only way to get exactly the photos you want is to shoot them yourself... if you're lucky.
 
I find HCB's work, especially his earliest surrealist snapshots before he took advice from Capa to be the most enthralling street work out there. That early work was just a knockout and I have seen two of his exhibitions in Asia.

The reason that I find that early work so visionary is because he was the one who essentially started it all with the decisive moment and that associated philosophy behind the snapshot. His combination of surreal juxtapositions on the streets of Spain, France and Mexico in the early 30's often employing paradoxes with posters and frames within frames was visionary. To an extent Andre Kertsz was producing similar work but he didn't match HCB with his amazing and intuitive timing.

I realize that Capa told him to make edits with stories otherwise he would be labelled a surrealist photographer, but when he jumped over to that new form of storytelling his work just didn't seem as spontaneous to me. That early work before his drive to tell a story was all intuition, as he wandered the streets there seemed to be a whole new and exciting world that he captured on film.

I often look at his early photographs and wonder what it would have been like to be confronted by a dapper young man taking your photograph with a Leica complete with black Vidom - back in the early 30's the 35mm camera was still ground breaking and not common, so I guess it would have been a scene like out of a Kubrick movie.

I have read on places like flickr and other internet groups criticism of him from young photographers who have no idea of the skill level needed to operate a Barnack with a shutter speed a lot less than what we are afforded today. A lower ISO of film, less depth of field and slower shutter speeds all seen through a tiny viewfinder. After using a Leica IIIC for some time, I am in constant awe of the skill level needed to utilise that machine. Wow.

In a sense there were no precedents for him to follow or copy so his work was more derivative of painting and literature than other contremporary photographer's work. After that, many photographer's style morphed into one another but his 30's was so fresh. I particularly like the photo of the two men at the bull ring, a portrait within a portrait. Also, the man sleeping under the sketch in Spain. Also, I adore that photo of that man in France who has turned around to confront him with those foreboding trees on either side of the path.

I really like his work he did in Russia later on and he must have done his homework before going there. It is no surprise that he was so well read and was really conveying his sense of knowledge through his photographs. If I have one criticism of him, I felt like that he become trapped within his own philosophy of the decisive moment and didn't decide to breach the confines of that mode of operation.

As his photograph subjects were within a fixed frame - that is all of the energy was contained within the frame. Later photographers like William Klein, Moriyama and Winogrand breached that fixed frame with the energy exploding out, hence pushing the boundaries of the medium. Perhaps that was the weakness of his genius - he was so content that the frame couldn't be breached.

NOW TO MYTHS: Mike Johnston on the inline photographer does an interesting analysis on the photo with the children playing and the fat man walking through the frame with all of the square windows. I think that it was taken in Spain. He asserts that it was taken with a 35mm lens and I'm inclined to agree with him as the perspective and depth of field is different from what would be from a 50mm. Also, that photo of the old lady with the flag draped over her shoulders in USA was apparently taken with a 90mm.

So, I think that there are a lot of myths that invariably float around his name. Also, Magnum once published this thing that he had retired from photography to take up painting in the 70's which is simply not true. I have seen his photographs in a gallery and museum show in Seoul that dated to the 80's and 90's.

Also, there is a photograph floating on the internet of him taking photos in England at some parade in the 80's. So, that should be clarified as not as active as he once was. Actually, one of my favorite photos from his work in the 90's was a self-portrait of his shadow next to a line of trees in France. Perhaps he was saying that he is a shadow of his former self.

So, here is a quote from "Icons of Photography" the 20th Century published by Prestel (1999) - an excellent book by the way. "What is more in his advanced years, he was able to afford the luxury of declaring his photographic oeucre complete, so that he could devote himself chiefly - as in his youth - to drawing and painting. And that was some twenty years ago".

About his genius: "Alicante was one of Cartier-Bressons very first pictures, the work of a twenty five year old genius who frequently recorded ladies of the streets on his journeys through Spain and Mexico". This photo shows and the contact sheet that I have seen on the net shows him engaging with his subjects. So the myth that he never engaged with his subjects (apart from his portraiture work) and took a snatch and grab approach was also not true.

About the myth of not cropping, well many posters above have provided excellent insight to break that myth as well. Actually there is a photograph that he printed that went up for auction in London of the man jumping the puddle that was printed and cropped by him in the 30's when it was taken. Went for a pretty penny as well as did all the stuff that he physically printed. The tones were very different, hence pointing to the fact that he hadn't mastered that second part of the medium.

Someone above wrote that there was still a black line on the left, well I think that the printer was clever and used the fence post to appear like the negative edge. So, he did print his own work in the 30's but realized that he didn't enjoy it and would prefer hunting for photos and engaging in surrealist meeting than time in the darkroom.

My favorite quote to finish: "In his pictures he subjugated lines, surfaces, movements and the intermediate stages of gray between black and white, into a whole, according to almost musical patterns and laws".

In highlighting some of these myths I wasn't criticising him, quite the opposite. It is just that my respect for the man and his work is such that I want to know the 'full picture' behind his legacy. Some famous writer whose name escapes me now once wrote: "Isn't fame after all the sum of the misunderstandings that gather around a new name".
 
I was not aware that post had to be considered important before posting. After looking at some HC-B pictures I wanted to know if he was consistent with his statements. It does kick me in the butt to do a better job of framing though. I have only had a RF for four or five years and did not pay much attention to the RF world.
 
I was not aware that post had to be considered important before posting. After looking at some HC-B pictures I wanted to know if he was consistent with his statements. It does kick me in the butt to do a better job of framing though. I have only had a RF for four or five years and did not pay much attention to the RF world.

Any post is important to those who posted it and those who read and replied. Certainly beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

What I was referring to is the importance of Cartier-Bresson cropping or not. His photos are what they are. How he got there by in camera composition, cropping while printing himself or directing someone else to crop while printing are not important to me. I view them as just a series of continuing artistic interpretations made along the way.
 
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