Help! Fed 1 shutter repair

[john neal]

I am replacing the (net) curtains on my Fed1, and have got to a problem - the marks I made to show where the tapes should be glued on the drum side have gone 😱

I know I made some, but not obvious enough (I think they went with the shellac) :bang:

Does anyone know how to determine the correct position?

Please?

 

[Spyderman]

Sorry to hear that.
It seems you will have to dive deeper into the working of the shutter mechanism. I would start from the end: when the shutter is released (unwound, uncocked), the 2 curtains need to overlap a few mm (1-2). Then when it is cocked, the 2 curtains will overlap more.
I remember doing this by trial end error some time ago, and if I remember correctly I managed to put it back together just so-so.
Hint: when doing the trial-error torture, use a thin sticky tape to attach the shutter ribbons to the drum.

 

[wolves3012]

Unlucky there John, I've PM-ed you some info that may help. Spyderman's suggestions look pretty good to me. I think Jay Javier's FED/Zorki Survival site also carries some positioning information, on the curtain-replacement pages, well worth a look.

In addition to Spyderman's advice on using double-sided tape - just put absolutlely minimal tension on the rollers, enough to make it run and no more, else you'll find the tape won't hold!

 

[john neal]

Thanks guys - I'll give it a whirl and report back.

 

[john neal]

Well, I hope I have it - after a couple of dry runs. I now have about 3mm overlap at the released position and 4mm or so at the cocked end of the scale. I have glued the tapes and will reassemble tonight (I hope)

More later

 

[Valkir1987]

Dear John,

Small cut peices of painters tape, or cellotape. May help to find the correct position before glueing.

Succes! 🙂

 

[john neal]

Well, after about 6 or 7 tries, I got it all back, only to find I had the tapes crossed :bang: :bang:

I'll leave it to tomorrow........

 

[Ramon-uk]

Probably a bit late now but I am just doing mine and these are the measurements that I've got.

 

[wolves3012]

Useful information Ramon-uk, when I did mine I never bothered to keep the measurements. I just measured and cut the new ones to match them. Perhaps I should have made a note but I think they do vary a bit between models. Those numbers look familiar from my NKVD but I seem to recall my Zorki 3M was not quite the same.

I'll be re-curtaining a Zorki 5 in the near future, together with re-bushing the bottom sprocket bearing and was planning to document and post on here. Let's see how those measurements compare.

 

[Ramon-uk]

when I did mine I never bothered to keep the measurements.

I must admit I have now replaced shutter blinds in 6 of my FSU cameras and this is the first time I have saved any measurements. I also just copy the old ones.

Incidentally the diagram refers to a Fed 1d.

 

[john neal]

Probably a bit late now but I am just doing mine and these are the measurements that I've got.

Ramon-uk,

Great info, and may still be of use to me. I have only one speed, and don't see how I'm going to change that, so it may be a case of start again.

The only one I'm sure is right is the curtain fitted to the drum, I scribed that one carefully and it worked OK. I struggled with the tapes on that side in two respects - I didn't scribe hard enough, and the tapes were fitted with "extension pices" that were about 1cm in lenght, so did I include that in the new tapes or not?

I'll have to look ahard at how the shutter releases - it's sufficiently different to the Leica design that it's throwing me at the moment.

More soon........

 

[Ramon-uk]

If you only have one speed then this cannot be caused by the blinds in the wrong place. If the blinds are correct then you should be able to tell by the position they end up at when the shutter is released.

I would suggest that you have either fitted the crescent shaped arm incorrectly or the spring on this arm needs a little bend to increase the tension, it should push inwards towards the shutter selector and downwards towards the camera body.
The correct position, when the shutter is cocked is shown in the picture below.(shutter selector is on Z position)

 

[wolves3012]

I'll have to look ahard at how the shutter releases - it's sufficiently different to the Leica design that it's throwing me at the moment.

More soon........

John,

I admit never having looked at the Leica mechanism for real, but looking at the photo in another thread it looks much the same to me.

The method is: The shutter button disengages the two "pegs" below the sprocket, releasing both curtains. Simultaneously, the second-curtain release arm drops and traps the second curtain. When the first curtain passes the set-point, according to the speed-hole used, the little arm on the shaft kicks aside the second curtain latch and releases the second curtain.

When you say you have a one-speed shutter, what speed would that be? Does it actually give an exposure, i.e. do you really get a gap? Does "B" work properly?

 

[john neal]

Hmm great pic and, well, my shutter is not cocking quite as far anti-clockwise as yours, it would need to go a few more degrees to match with your photo - not far probably less than 5 degrees. What this means is that the crescent arm is not trapping the 2nd curtain release pawl, so only one speed 1/1000? (with the 2nd curtain definitely catching the first)

The spring is pressing in & down, that much is common to the Leica.

The curtains are clearing the aperture in the frame at both wound and released positions - I made sure I had the restricting gear as far clockwise as it would go before fitting the drum, but could it be that I have the drum out by one tooth?

 

[wolves3012]

...but could it be that I have the drum out by one tooth?

That sounds a likely explanation...

 

[john neal]

Gentlemen,

I have shutter speeds! Yahoo 😀

The drum was 1 tooth out. The downside is that my tapes are about 2mm too short and the 1st curtain is not quite clearing the gate. I will live with that for now, at least until I have tested the body, probably long-term to be honest

Many thanks for your help - the pics were great and decriptions helped too - one happy bunny!

 

[Ramon-uk]

Always nice to hear a story with a happy ending 🙂

 

[john neal]

Thanks Ramon. Having slept on it, I realise that I'm going to have to move the tapes around by those 2-3 mm. If I don't my conscience will always be pricking me.

Perfectionist, moi?

 

[wolves3012]

Thanks Ramon. Having slept on it, I realise that I'm going to have to move the tapes around by those 2-3 mm. If I don't my conscience will always be pricking me.

Perfectionist, moi?

All too familiar here! I made the mistake of not marking the tapes on the NKVD I did, not one to repeat - took hours with them double-sided stickied and fiddling till it was right, then gluing! Now I just need to finalise the lens-shimming grrrr....

 

[john neal]

OK, well, the curtains are back and all is well. The shutter now sounds really good (v. quiet) and the wind-on is almost Leica smooth too.

Unfortunately, the pressure plate has been badly damaged by rust. I have managed to kill the rust, but have lost the blueing in the process 🙁

Does anyone have a spare pressure plate that they could let me have - small amout of cash or some sort of trade? I have filters, straps and all sorts of small stuff to offer - even some out of date bulk 35mm B&W film.