!help: leica between 1000-1500!

Dvenosa

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9:19 PM
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Jun 29, 2006
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Brazil
Hi, Im a like newbie and I need some advice:

I've been photographing for a while and I think about turning pro in the near future. Not because im extremely talented but because I really love it!

Im going to NYC (I live in Brazil) in the end of this year . I sold a lot of stuff to buy a new camera system...the first thing I tought was a Leica M.

What to buy with 1000-1500 dollars? I've used to have a Leica IIIc that broken and I still have the Elmar( I LIKE IT!)...so I think I dont have to buy a 50mm...

what I already tought:

M2( or M4-2 ) plus a voigtlander 35mm lenses
M4-2 or M4-P with rough cosmetics and a Leitz 35mm
M6 with russian wide angle lenses
Zeiss Ikon and a voigtlander 35mm
Bessa R2a plus 2 voigtlander lenses
Bessa R2a plus Leica lenses

Whats the best ? Is it difficult to guess exposures? where to but cheap in NY?


Thanks and sorry for my long post and bad english! 🙂
 
My opinion:

Firstly: if you like your IIIc, give it a nice CLA a la DAG or Sherry.
Secondly: If you like Leica, buy the M4-P and a nice 35.
Secondly (Pt 2): If you want to try something else, buy a ZI and a nice Voigt. 35.
Thirdly: Don't forget to buy LTM --> M adaptors for the LTM lenses.


Finally, be cautious of almost any camera shop in NYC. B&H and Adorama are the notable exceptions, though you will pay more for their service and reliability..
 
"Firstly: if you like your IIIc, give it a nice CLA a la DAG or Sherry."

I dont have access to Dag or Sherry because I live in Brazil and its almost impossible to send cameras without paying large taxes...and anyway I would have to resilver the mirrors(that are really dim) and change the curtain...so, I dont think its worth.


"Thirdly: Don't forget to buy LTM --> M adaptors for the LTM lenses." 🙂 ...


"Finally, be cautious of almost any camera shop in NYC. B&H and Adorama are the notable exceptions, though you will pay more for their service and reliability "
Thanks!
 
Dvenosa said:
I think about turning pro in the near future.

Are pros in Brazil still shooting film? If you're serious about starting a business you need to consider the need to be competitive. Maybe you can do that with film and a Leica, maybe not, but better to check that out before you've spent your money.
 
Ben Z said:
Are pros in Brazil still shooting film? If you're serious about starting a business you need to consider the need to be competitive. Maybe you can do that with film and a Leica, maybe not, but better to check that out before you've spent your money.

No, most pros here shoot digital. I shoot mainly digital. But film gives me another kind of feeling...and I like the darkroom process. Film still unbeatable for some aplications.
 
Dvenosa said:
No, most pros here shoot digital. I shoot mainly digital. But film gives me another kind of feeling...and I like the darkroom process. Film still unbeatable for some aplications.

The applications could be a breaker: if you are going into portriature, I would invest in Medium Format as opposed to 35mm; if you are going into photojournalism I would see what your employer offers as equipment; et. cetera.
 
I dont think I will ever make a monstrous large print, so digital and 35mm is Ok for me. If I ever need a really big print I will ask to borrow a 'blad from one of my friends. If I decide to be a photojournalist I will use the newspaper equipment...for fashion( i dont like fashion...but I've been assistant for one fashion photographer) I can use MF or digital, depending on the need.

What I like the best is street shooting and here in Brazil is difficult not to have your gear stolen if you are using a big digital Nikon with big lenses. Leica cameras are small and look like a ps from a tieth point of view.

I like rangefinders. I like 35mm. I like Leica.
The problem is: Im not specially rich 😀 ...so...please....help me to decide the camera of my life! ( I dont pretend to buy another 35mm)
 
Dvenosa said:
"
I dont have access to Dag or Sherry because I live in Brazil and its almost impossible to send cameras without paying large taxes...and anyway I would have to resilver the mirrors(that are really dim) and change the curtain...so, I dont think its worth.


dvenosa...when you get to New York City, here is a very good, very honest repair shop for your Leicas, etc.:


http://www.essexcamera.com/

they are in New Jersey only one hour from Manhattan ...if you need repairs in a hurry and let them know, they will be glad to accomodate you. I used them for many years when I lived up North...They are operated by excellent Korean camera repair people. regards, bob
 
Dvenosa,
Bergen County Camera in Westwood, NJ usually has some user Leicas forsale at any given time. It's a short bus ride from Manhattan (New York City) to get there. B&H and Adorama are closed Saturdays and Bergen Camera is closed Sundays.
 
Hi, I recognized you from Flickr. I would say that a Leica body has more value to me personally than a Leica lens. I would get the best body you can afford and leave enough money for a CV lens (which focal length do you have in mind? A 28mm or 35mm ultron are great.).

ps: I have an Industar 22, which is based on the Elmar and I have to say its a great lens with a really interseting character. Make sure to pick up an adapter!
 
Jocko said:
But Magus! By parodying Leica owners as humourless, gear-obsessed elitists you can hardly fail but to cause pain and suffering amongst a group better known for broad-minded tolerance!

Cheers Ian🙂

You da man Jocko!

Nobody needs a Leica at 17. They needexperiance and skill.

Dvenosa, I have seen your work and I think you have talant. Just remember it's about the photograph not the tools you use.
 
Dvenosa, I would try my luck first with a Bessa. There's nothing to sneeze at with one and a couple of CV lenses. Otherwise, if you're really set on a Leica, a good user M6 with a 35mm is the ticket. At least to me.

As for Russian glass... it's generally good in the 50s, but the 35mm lenses only can work with unmetered Leicas because their rear elements protrude too much into the body, therefore blocking the meter.

I agree with Jim about the tools and results. In the business you want to get into, the tools are irrelevant as long as the results are good
 
I agree that nobody needs a leica at seventeen. Actually, I agree that nobody needs a Leica anyway 🙂 ...hehe....its just about feeling and GAS:bang:
5 main things drove me to leica:
it is small (comparing with my D50)
the sound of the shutter( i know that a leaf shutter is even quieter...but..)
the feel ( its the ultimate street shooting instrument; and it does HAVE something!)
the quality and precision the body and lenses( optically and mechanically)
and GAS( ..its a Leica for god sake! 😛 )
 
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If we are talking love of photography, I would not discount a Leica at 17. You are right, there is a different feel, a fit, a oneness that I find with a Leica M. My Bessas feel good, a fine camera. My Nikon S2 feels great, a solid camera and I am at home with her. But my Leicas are one with my hand.

In Junior High School I got better pictures with a Konica III and a Vivitar 152 than a professional photographer who worked at Kodak. He had a Leica SLR system. I had a Nikkormat system with Nikon glass throughout High School and still have it. I used ‘blads, Nikons, even 4x5s, I barrowed from my father (another photographer for Kodak). I agree that it’s not just the camera, but it does help to have a good camera you can rely on for learning and work.

How long will you be in NYC? If it is a week and a half you might try purchasing mail order and have it shipped to the hotel to your attention. I would bet that Stephen Gandy could help you (www.cameraquest.com). I buy a lot of stuff from Stephen and trust him. He does not have any used Leica stuff, but he is a great guy to deal with.

Richard Tillis has always been a straight shooter for me. Woodmere Camera (www.woodcam.com) is out on the island (much of NYC is on Long Island too), you could take a train I think but check with him on how far away from the station his shop is. Richard is a good guy too.

I’ve been buying all of my CV stuff from Stephen of late, but I got my first Bessa from Rich at PhotoVillage (www.photovillage.com). He treated me very well. They are in Manhattan. I think they may have some used Leica stuff.

Years ago I used to buy from Ken Hansen in the photo district. Great people, high price, but they stood behind their stuff. I’m not sure they are still in business or not.

Here are some thoughts in no order.

Bessa L with a 25mm CV, it becomes your carry everywhere camera. If the camera breaks, send it back to the place you purchase it and have them send you a new one. I suspect that you should not have to pay taxes if you get shipped back what you ship out (one dead L for a working L).

Get a M4-P if you want a Leica, that’s what I started with. While I love my M6 and the built in meter is handy (ok, great), the M4-P should be in your budget (good M6s are more these days) and allow you some extra stuff. If you can get the extra money, the M6 is a great camera.

Adorama has a silver ZI for $999. Not sure if they will be there still when you are in town. I have heard great things about the camera, but long term fixing her (25 years) I am not as sure as with a M4-P, I know you will get parts. The fit and the finish from folks how have touched is great.

Perhaps one answer is to get a ZI body, a Bessa L 25/4 combo and you are set. I would try to get everything from PhotoVillage, but at very least get the Bessa and lens from them.

While I have many Leica lenses, I am just as happy with the quality of the CV lenses. The newer ones (e.g. 40/1.4) are great and feel as smooth as the 35’cron. You can reuse your current 50 if you like, depends upon what you are looking to shoot. I find CV lenses sharp and better at controlling flare than my Leica lenses.

IMHO, do not take the time with Russian glass. Unless you are using it on a Russian body, there are just way too many issues (experienced and heard). I have had three different sets of Russian glass and out side of the 35/2.8 have never been happy with any of them. One big problem with the 35/2.8 is that it will not work on my Bessas or my M6. It will work fine on my M4-P.

If you do go the ZI route, look around for a Nikkor 85/2 LTM. They are great lenses and if you can find one in black, smooth and light weight. Chrome finish is heavier, but just as sharp. The ZI has an 85 frame line rather than a 90. I hear Zeiss glass is great, but the prices are way to close for my needs these days.

For street shooting the Bessa L and a 25/4 is find, small, not as quiet as a Leica, but fine. You do not stand out they way to do with a big DSLR. I carry one just about everywhere and love it. I wish I had it for street shots when I lived in NYC years ago.

Hope this helps. Again, like with all opinions, your mileage may vary (an American saying that you might not get the same results, comes from some car adds years ago talking about fuel milage).

Now go out and shoot, make every frame count. Look at books of famous photographers in the library, what makes the shot good. Look at lighting, look at people and enjoy.

B2 (;->
 
Dvenosa said:
M2( or M4-2 ) plus a voigtlander 35mm lenses
M4-2 or M4-P with rough cosmetics and a Leitz 35mm
M6 with russian wide angle lenses
Zeiss Ikon and a voigtlander 35mm
Bessa R2a plus 2 voigtlander lenses
Bessa R2a plus Leica lenses

I think for $1500 you might just be able to get an older M6 (about $1000-1200, for "Made in Germany", unless made in "Wetzlar" then usually overpriced) and a beater (worn barrel) 35mm/2.8 Summaron, though nice f/2.8 Summarons are way overpriced and can be $600-800. Or you might consider an M6 and a Voigtländer 35mm/2.5 "Pancake" or 35mm/1.7 or 28mm/1.9 lens.

Or for another route, you could get the Zeiss 35mm or 28mm Biogon ZM (both as good as, but different from Leica counterparts) and a Bessa R2A. As long as you get a functioning body, with an aligned rangefinder, the lens is usually the most important part of the system. Buy the best lens you can afford, and later you can trade up for a better body, if you feel like you are running into limitations with the camera itself.
 
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