Help me choose a one and only camera and lens system

If the Leica M is a little big and heavy, the Konica Hexar RF is basically the same.

For something smaller or lighter, stick to the Zeiss Ikon ZM, Voigtlander Bessa, Minolta CLE, and Leica Cl. I'm not very confident about which one is going to be the most repairable in the long term, but I think it's probably the Bessa R2 because it has a mechanical shutter and it's relatively young.

Since you prefer compact lenses like the 35/2.8 Biogon C, I'm sure you'd like the Nokton 35/1.4, Color Skopar 35/2.5, and Ultron 35/2 as well.

If I had to pick, I'd go with a Bessa R2 and the Ultron 35/2.
 
its a pity that all these cameras are super expensive. i dont want something heavy and super expensive. i want a camera that can fit a 35mm m-mount without breaking the back or my back. the cl and cle are great size but i dont get that. i dont want the 40mm, will they work with a 35mm ? will i be able to focus and compose ?
 
its a pity that all these cameras are super expensive. i dont want something heavy and super expensive. i want a camera that can fit a 35mm m-mount without breaking the back or my back. the cl and cle are great size but i dont get that. i dont want the 40mm, will they work with a 35mm ? will i be able to focus and compose ?

They aren't ideal for 35mm and are also not cheap. I did not get on with the rangefinder patch on my otherwise excellent CL.

Sadly now none of the M system lenses or cameras are cheap in any way. You should though be able to move from an M2 to a Bessa R2M without more money and it is a quarter of a pound lighter. With a Biogon on the front you are pretty much as compact and light as you can get on a full fat M system camera.
 
it's a pity that all these cameras are super expensive. i don't want something heavy and super expensive. i want a camera that can fit a 35mm m-mount without breaking the back or my back. the cl and cle are great size but i don't get that. i don't want the 40mm, will they work with a 35mm ? will i be able to focus and compose ?

You'll have to estimate the 35mm framing as the CL frames are for 40, 50 and 90. The CLE's are for 28, 40 and 90mm. The CL VF can be used for 35mm by ignoring the frame lines but I've never tried it nor needed to.

They take M mount lenses but there are 2 or 3 individual lenses from Leica that should never be used in the CL. I don't know about the CLE nor other makes of lens. And I'm wary, now, of all electronic cameras like the CLE.

In other words they take and focus M mount lenses but...

As for composing, since a lot of people take 2:3 aspect ratio photos and hack them down to 8" x 10" I just can't even guess but small, neat and cheap auxiliary VF's are available; the Japanese Helios come to mind first.

BTW, the CL's 40mm f/2 Summicron is a very useful lens, a lot of people love it.

Regards, David
 
LOL! I guess that's why sports photographers always shoot with leicas!

It depends on sports!
I use a Leica M3 with 50mm lens.
Favorite "sports" shoot a rodeo, where dust fell like soft rain..
I used ONE roll capturing a number of great action shots..

Modern Digital Leica and now the new Nikon,Canon,Sony etc, are so expensive, as to be impossible for a pro to use or own..
 
It depends on sports!
I use a Leica M3 with 50mm lens.
Favorite "sports" shoot a rodeo, where dust fell like soft rain..
I used ONE roll capturing a number of great action shots..

Modern Digital Leica and now the new Nikon,Canon,Sony etc, are so expensive, as to be impossible for a pro to use or own..

I shoot rangefinders, too. But I acknowledge that there are situations where they are not the ideal choice. So shoot rodeos with a rangefinder if you like, even though a modern DSLR with AF would be a far, far superior choice.
 
Opinions vary whether equipment matters. From a technical standpoint, of course not. But we are creatures and haptics do matter. You have to find your muse, if that’s autofocus, RF, pano, SLR, P&S or pinhole. Whatever releases your mind or inspires. This takes trial & error.
 
its a pity that all these cameras are super expensive. i dont want something heavy and super expensive. i want a camera that can fit a 35mm m-mount without breaking the back or my back. the cl and cle are great size but i dont get that. i dont want the 40mm, will they work with a 35mm ? will i be able to focus and compose ?

Ok, why not an Olympus XA? Unfortunately, M mount = expensive.
 
... I finally decided to get into the Leica film system after a long time of thinking. ... I think the M6 is the best buy for me cause it has a photometer ... I wear glasses for nearsightedness all the time if that's important to decide. ... I'm leaning towards 35 or 50mm. ... For me its important the small size ... I dont want the lens to block the viewfinder. I would surely prefer 1,4 but if that happens with all 1,4 lenses, I'll settle with a Summicron option. ... If ... quality is the same as the summilux ... I wont buy another lens in the future cause one is enough so that must be really good. ... I'll travel for the next 2 years the world so the use will be general. What would you suggest?
Highlighting the pertinent concerns for you I'd say you actually have several options:
For an "all Leica" one-body one-lens option you can't beat an M6 mated with a 35mm Summicron Asph. It's ultra compact, sharp, and the plastic shade doesn't show up much in the VF. If you're traveling I would see a 35 FL as less limiting compared to a 50. But the 50mm Summicron (the pre-apo version with the collapsible shade) is also unbeatable (but I think you'd be happier with a 35). Only you can decide this! The pre asph versions of both the 35 and 50 Summilux options are nowhere near as sharp as the comparable Summicrons. But if cost of no object, get the latest 35mm Asph Summilux from Leica - it's reasonably compact, very sharp, but also very expensive!

11091813-orig.jpg

M2-6 [FrankenLeica] and 35mm [LHSA] Asph Summicron.

As has already been mentioned, however, there are numerous non-Leica options. I think I would recommend the 35mm Nokton (version II) from Voigtlander. It won't be as sharp as the Leica lens, but it's about 1/4 the price of the Asph Summicron and has the f/1.4 aperture you want. It's better than the pre-asph Summilux, which is about the same size.

And FWIW, the v.4 Summicron is a very nice lens, but it'll cost you about the same as the latest Asph Summicron on the used market. As a shooter, I'd go with the Asph version!
 
i finally managed to check the m2 with the zeiss 35 2.8 and i found the lens pretty small and sharp. the body showed it age. im thinking i would love the lens but i dont want a so old and heavy. are there other( cheap) options for camera ? it doesnt need to be leica
If you're into RF style photography I can't recommend any non-Leica option. The CV Bessa cameras are now discontinued and unsupported and are now selling used for more than what they sold for new (simply not worth it, IMHO). The Zeiss Ikon (also discontinued and unsupported) comes nowhere close to a Leica. The RF patch whites out very easily if you don't center your eye perfectly on the RF patch. And neither of these cameras are particularly durable. I have no experience with the Konica Hexar, but its electronic issues are infamous - and, again, they're also discontinued and unsupported.

However, the Leica CL (or the "Leitz Minolta CL" Minolta variant) is a very nice camera. The RF patch is good and has framelines for 40, 50, and 90. The RF base-length is the same to that of a CV Bessa and they're very compact and light. The Leica and Minolta variant (designed by Leica in cooperation with Minolta) are identical and were produced in the same factory in Japan.

Based on your clarifying comments, I'd go for a CL and a CV 40mm Nokton MC lens. It's a nice compromise between a 35 and 50 and it's very sharp. The whole kit can be had for less than $1,000 (even if the camera needs a CLA).

Yes, the CL is also discontinued, but spare parts are still available and they can still be repaired by qualified technicians.
 
its a pity that all these cameras are super expensive. i dont want something heavy and super expensive. i want a camera that can fit a 35mm m-mount without breaking the back or my back. the cl and cle are great size but i dont get that. i dont want the 40mm, will they work with a 35mm ? will i be able to focus and compose ?

You can use a 35mm with the Leica CL if you imagine what the angle of view will be. This video has a good illustration and explanation:

https://youtu.be/nBf5en0GKbo?t=806

See also this thread: https://www.photo.net/discuss/threads/how-close-is-the-viewfinder-of-leica-cl-to-35mm/
00Axub-21637984.jpg


Why do you want a 35mm instead of a 40mm? How strong is this preference? The 40/1.4 Nokton is a pretty good lens (though I'm not a fan of its bokeh wide open and close up, but it is admittedly not as harsh as the 40mm Summicron), and it makes a great package with the Leica CL.

You might also want to consider the Voigtlander Bessa R2S and 35/2.5 Color Skopar (which does have a focusing tab). Because the S-mount is less popular, you can get a good deal for about $1000 and have something unique.
 
its a pity that all these cameras are super expensive. i dont want something heavy and super expensive. i want a camera that can fit a 35mm m-mount without breaking the back or my back. the cl and cle are great size but i dont get that. i dont want the 40mm, will they work with a 35mm ? will i be able to focus and compose ?

If M mount bodies and lenses are super expensive for you I'd suggest sticking with your Pentax and Nikon SLRs.
Your not going to be able to notice a difference in quality between Pentax, Nikkor and Leica glass
 
The difference between the 35mm and 40mm is about the same as the focus breathing of any lens in either of those focal lengths.
As was said above, the rangefinder will be no panacea, and between brands, you won't be able to discern which lens took which photo. Pentax has made a few of the finest, most highly regarded lenses ever. This is why we have threads with RFF members sticking their SMC-M and Takumars on their Leicas.
Phil Forrest
 
Yes, the CL is also discontinued, but spare parts are still available and they can still be repaired by qualified technicians.

When I bought a CL in the Wetzlar Leica Store this summer I was explicitly told by the specialist there responsible for the older cameras that it had no warranty. The reason being that Leica no longer has any parts for the camera and does not support it.

The leading UK Leica repairer Camerworks will no longer service or repair the CL (or M5).

Anybody buying one today will be faced with an ever-diminishing number of people who will service them or have parts.
 
As several posters suggest, chopping and changing camera systems may not provide the results you are seeking That achievement lies entirely within you.

Asking others to make choices for you is basically evading the point - what system and which lenses suit you best? Only you can make this decision. You alone will know best what your interests and preferred subjects are, in which directions you intend to go in your future photography, and how you want to go about it.

In my long lifetime (I'm in my 70s) I have worked with three major camera systems - Rolleiflex, Nikon and Contax G. I still have and use cameras in the three systems - including the first Rollei TLR I bought, a 2.5E2 I bought in 1964, also several others I purchased in the 1990s and lastly, a greatly loved Rolleicord Vb I picked up in 2016. Alas, I nowadays shoot less film than digital. As for my Nikons, I got into the brand in the 1970s with two Nikkormat ELs and then added FT2s and, about 15 years ago, two F65s (aka N65). My digital Nikons were D90s, D700s and this year a new D800. I also have a good selection of Nikkors both manual and autofocus, and a small but greatly loved range of Contax G Zeiss lenses which I use when I travel. Alas, my F series Nikkor lenses almost never get used now and I seem to be making the most of four D lenses (20, 28, 60 and 180). As for the Nikkormats, I fully intend to take them out of mothballs and shoot with them before I move on to that big darkroom in the sky, long from now may this be.

My most used lens in the Nikkor 28, followed by the 85, then the 60 micro. YMMD, of course. Again, you will know best what the answer to this is.

To sum this up, as I see it, the camera system that will best suit you is the one that will give you the results you want with the least fuss and bother. For me, this would be my Nikons which I've used and greatly loved since 1974, then the Rolleis, and finally the Contax G1 system.

I wish you the best of luck and all the enjoyment you can possibly attain from your quest for a system. It can be (almost) as much fun to seek (and I hope, find) as it is to use the equipment, although without careful consideration as to what you intend to buy and why, moving into a new system in this day and age can be fatal to your finances.

Above all else, enjoy the quest.

(Added later) As your focus (pun intended) seems to be Leica, I bought into the M system in the mid 1980s. And it almost bankrupted me. At the time I was a poor newspaper journalist, and buying an M2 and M3 and three lenses cost me almost half a year's income, as well as another nail in my (future) divorce. A year later I sold the entire lot. Too poor at the time to be into Leicas, and now, in the so-called wisdom of old age, too wise to go down that costly road again. A cautionary tale here.
 
When I bought a CL in the Wetzlar Leica Store this summer I was explicitly told by the specialist there responsible for the older cameras that it had no warranty. The reason being that Leica no longer has any parts for the camera and does not support it.

The leading UK Leica repairer Camerworks will no longer service or repair the CL (or M5).

Anybody buying one today will be faced with an ever-diminishing number of people who will service them or have parts.
Perhaps I was speaking from within my own bubble. Don Goldberg ("DAG") is my go-to repair guy and he does have spare parts for the CL. He services them regularly.
 
i finally managed to check the m2 with the zeiss 35 2.8 and i found the lens pretty small and sharp. the body showed it age. im thinking i would love the lens but i dont want a so old and heavy. are there other( cheap) options for camera ? it doesnt need to be leica


My recommendation would be the Zeiss Ikon ZM. It was my first rangefinder, and I loved it until it just stopped working one day. :bang: It has to go in for repair. But otherwise, it's a great camera with a huge viewfinder, good light meter, easy loading, and much lighter than any Leica M. You can also get a grip attachment which makes handling even better. The rangefinder baselength is longer, which makes it slightly more accurate to focus, too.
 
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