Here we go again... R2a and R2m, same feel?

[froyd]

I promise I read all the recent threads about R*a vs R*m. However, I have not found a full answer to my question, not even on Stephen's site.

What I am wondering is how the mechanical quality, build, and finish of the R*a compares to the R*m. Some post and cameraquest hint at a better --or at least different-- paint finis on the Ms, but other than that, do the cameras feel the same in use? Do they feel equally solid and well made?

AE is not a must-have for me, though if the As and Ms were identical infeel, I would pick the As. I also don't count operating without batteries as a plus, it's not a feature I've needed in the past 15 years and I don't see that changing. (My F4 takes 12, yes 12 😱, AA batterie and it never bothered me a bit).

Clearly, I'm asking comparison of the black bodies, since chrome is not an option on the R*a cameras.

Sorry for keeping this sensless discussion alive a little longer....

 

[rover]

I don't know that there will be a large number of people who have handled both Bessas. Here is what Stephen wrote, I am sure this is what you are referring to...

R2A /R3A vs. R2M / R3M?

These four cameras are produced in the same factory on the same assembly line by the same personnel, using the same body casting. They differ primarily in their shutters and Aperture Priority Exposure vs. Metered Manual Exposure.

The R2A / R3A have electronic shutters which makes possible your choice of either metered manual metering (you adjust the f/stops or shutter speeds to match the finder readout) or Aperture Priority Automatic Exposure (you choose the f/stop, the camera automatically chooses the shutter speed) with AE exposure lock. The R2A / R3A offer faster shooting with Aperture Priority -- a big plus for street photography or quick moving events. The disadvantage is like virtually all other electronic shutter cameras, dead batteries mean a dead camera.

The R2M / R3M have mechanical shutters, which means no Aperture Priority AE. Dead batteries mean no meter, but you can continue to take pictures by setting the exposure yourself. In my opinion the R2M / R3M have the best metered manual metering display of ANY Leica mount rangefinder. In addition, the R2M / R3M shutters are noticeably quieter than the earlier mechanical shutters of the Bessa L, T or R2, but yet not as quiet as the cloth shutters in the Leica M series.

From his first paragraph I have to assume that they are built and feel almost identical.

 

[Flyfisher Tom]

I don't know that there will be a large number of people who have handled both Bessas. Here is what Stephen wrote, I am sure this is what you are referring to...



From his first paragraph I have to assume that they are built and feel almost identical.

What Rover said. And, the R2A is already a very well-built high quality camera.

 

[CameraQuest]

Feel of R2M / R3M

Feel of R2M / R3M

Mr. K constantly seeks to improve the Cosina Voigtlander product line with each succeeding model, whether it be camera body or lens.

this is especially noticable if you sit down with all the CV bodies to date placed side by site. The series in order of introduction is Bessa L, R, T, R2, R2S/R2C, R2A/R3A, R2M/R3M.

The R2M / R3M are improved internally compared to the R2A / R3A due to an improved modified shutter and film transport. The result is a quieter and slightly smoother R2M / R3M.

The R2A / R3A are quality cameras, yet the R2M / R3M have a smoother and quieter feel, a better feel. And any one who reads my site knows I greatly prefer the classic black paint finish to any other standard RF finish.

How good are the R2M/R3M? In my opinion, IF the R2M/R3M had a Leica nameplate on them at twice the price, they would sell about four times as fast. They are the perfect economy mechanical shutter introductions to the Leica M system that Leica should have produced twenty years ago.

Stephen

 

[rover]

Thanks Stephen, always best to get it from the #1 Bessa guy.

 

[froyd]

Thanks Stephen, always best to get it from the #1 Bessa guy.

Yes, thanks very much for the insight Stephen.

 

[raid]

Stephen,
Which Bessa would be best suited for me if I want to use my Leitz lenses (M and LTM) and I want a quality camera? Also,how do you compare the sharpness of the Heliar 50/2 vs 50/3.5? Thanks.

Raid

 

[Chris Lynch]

Raid- i'm not the Bessa Guru that Stephen is, but maybe i can help you.
for most practical purposes- the only differences from the R#A's and R#M's is the "A's" have Aperture Priority and AE-Lock.
Other than that, the 2A/M have the same .68 finder, and the 3A/M have the same 1:1 finder. If you wear glasses (especially thicker ones), the 40 framelines may be hard to see in the 3's (40 is the widest frame in the 1:1 finder, some say that the ENTIRE frame is basically 35mm)...
the M's are not dependent on batteries for anything but metering, but that's generally not that much of a problem. They all take LTM/M lenses equally well, and meter pretty much the same.
The 2/3A's have shutter speeds displayed in the finder, whereas the 2/3M's have a really nice -2 to +2 exposure scale.
with the 3A/M's 1:1 (big and bright too) finder, you can easily use the camera with both eyes open.

hope i was somewhat helpful.
-chris

 

[CameraQuest]

Stephen,
Which Bessa would be best suited for me if I want to use my Leitz lenses (M and LTM) and I want a quality camera? Also,how do you compare the sharpness of the Heliar 50/2 vs 50/3.5? Thanks.

Raid

there is really no right or wrong answer on this. and your right answer may well be different than the person next to you. it all depends upon how you weight the differences between the R2A / R3A vs R2M / R3M families.

all will take the same Leitz / Leica lenses. with or without adapters, with the same exceptions like the 50/1. 75/1.4, or 135's wide open and close up -- but just fine stopped down two stops.

no published comparision tests yet between the F/2 and F/3.5 Heliars, but I do know at least one magazine is working on it. frankly I would expect it to be close, but the edge will probably go to the astounding 50/3.5.

Not much has been mentioned about how rare it is to have ANY quality FIVE element f/2 50mm lens, much less a Heliar design. Mr. K and his stuff deserve much praise for pulling this minor miracle off. No doubt Cosina's ability to make their own special blend glass played no small part.

Long term, on the camera choices, a A / M Aperture Priority / Mechanical combination perhaps makes the best choice as it gives the most versatility and shooting choices. Currently you can buy both bodies for about 1/3 of a one new Leica M body -- not a bad deal for a return on your investment.

Stephen

 

[Stephanie Brim]

Hrm. I think an appropriate question would be whether or not you'd use the lens in low light. In that case, the 50/2 Heliar would be a better idea if only for its extra speed, but tests would be interesting. I'd especially like to see performance wide open on both Heliars.

I'm still wondering what I could sell to afford the R2M set. Pondering donating plasma and using that money toward a new camera. Wouldn't be a bad idea anyway...I'm healthy and it's needed. In a few month's time I'd have earned enough money.

 

[raid]

Thanks Chris and Stephen. You have given me the right answers.

Stephen: I am intrigued by the Heliar 50/3.5. Someone offered me the Bessa T set with it for $1000, but I don't want another T but an R.



Raid