Hold off on the M10, Konost coming end of 2017

The negativity in the thread is astounding. Why not wish these guys the best? I for one would like to see a viable, less expensive alternative to the grossly overpriced offerings from the bling specialists, Leica.
 
nightfly said:
They should probably shut up till they have something closer to production rather than piss people off by posting unrealistic time frames and then going silent for year at a time.
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They shut up for years. Maybe to focus on actual development? I'm not pissed off as they didn't promise me anything. A startup company can not completely "shut up" and hide away as they need investors and partners. Calling it vapourware is by todays standards rather ignorant as they have not asked for any customer money nor have they promised a market product..
 
Why is everyone reacting negatively? Surely this can only be taken as good or neutral news? Has anyone lost money or energy/time on these guys yet? If not, then take it as a long shot that they can deliver -- but if they do then we have an interesting alternative/option in the market.
 
It would be wonderful to see another new production digital rangefinder choice besides Leica.

Let's see what they can do.
 
I don't think the time frame is an issue. Each new camera that hits the shelves has usually had several years of development behind it. Leica spent a lot of time developing their M8 and still managed to release it into the market with some flaws.

I really hope Konost do come up with something ... but the longer this process goes on the less likely the camera is to be a success in my opinion because every month that passes another handful of used M9s and 240s etc hits the streets.
 
nasmformyzombie said:
The negativity in the thread is astounding. Why not wish these guys the best? I for one would like to see a viable, less expensive alternative to the grossly overpriced offerings from the bling specialists, Leica.
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The negativity in your post towards Leica is astounding. Especially because you criticize the negativity of other people here.
 
brennanphotoguy said:
Under deliver isn't the right term. That implies they have something physical or meaningful to deliver. Does anyone here have any reason to suspect that they are working on anything at all? They have done nothing but float the same or slightly altered 3D renderings around for a long time.
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Conversely, does anyone here have any reason to suspect they are lying? What would they gain from just trolling? I mean, they didn't do a Kickstarter and take people's money. They haven't come out and said it was just a project for a class. If it doesn't come out, who cares? It doesn't change my life. Does anyone here have any reason to suspect they are lying or is it just easy to be cynical on the internet?
 
I would love to see this happen. Some people don't want to buy a used camera and cannot afford or see the value in a new Leica. This would be the alternative.
 
nightfly said:
I don't think it's that people underestimate the task that Konost have taken on for themselves. More that they continually over promise and under deliver to the point where you can't really take them seriously.

They should probably shut up till they have something closer to production rather than piss people off by posting unrealistic time frames and then going silent for year at a time.
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Can you quote some of their promises, which have you so disappointed? You wonder why people have negative impressions of photographers, read this thread. Rude, ignorant and demanding. I guess that's because anyone can pick up a camera, but using one alot takes insensitivity. ;) So probably there is an actual filter for rudeness in photographers.

However, there are also lots of nice photographers, so if you are one, please disregard that comment. :)

One thing I've noticed is pre-production whining has no impact whatever on sales. In the lead up to the release of the A7, it was incredible the negative input from so many members in several forums I frequented at the time. What really amazed me is how many harsh critics just suddenly bought one, as soon as they had the chance. One guy went from attacking Sony point by point on their A7 manual, which he downloaded, to just buying one. His diatribe ceased in a day.

Hopefully if any poor soul at this little startup is reading this thread, they know that.

People think it takes some miracle to make a FF sensor that will shoot M glass as well as a M9 or M240. You have to have all sorts of special traits and design it from scratch, right?

Leica has never done anything except pick off the shelf items, which already existed. The biggest single factor is the glass on the sensor. Sony has 2.6mm in total. M9 has .8mm. Shoot a light ray towards the edge at sharp angle which will alter it's course less?

In fact, the Sony sensor is very likely just as good as any Leica sensor, given a similar glass thickness. While such changes have been made to many DSLR sensors in the past, pulling coverglass and filter stacks is nothing new, only a few have done it "all the way" to a A7, or in this case the A7rii:


Testshot by Charlie Webster, ZM 21/4.5 Test by Sam Lee @ f/5.6

The normal Kolari mod, understandably, does not touch the glued base .7mm clear coverglass, so it's thin-filter goes on above that, and reduces total glass thickness over the sensor from 2.6 to 1.5mm and that really helps alot, but the still thinner M240 is still better with many wides, though not the SEM 18 or 28 Lux.. Above NK in Taiwan has pulled off the base coverglass and sealed the sensor against a .7mm IR cut. No other glass. Thinner than Leica. No lens profile or corner fix applied. This is one of the first Sony cameras in the world to have this done, and now it's known that other IR cut options make a more natural WB, at .85mm.

What this shows is Konost is not chasing unicorns. ZM 21/4.5 is famous for huge red edge on the M240. This Sony is looking actually better, and at 42 mp with the steepest ray angles of any ZM lens. You can see the full on flickr, and it seems to be focused at infinity, so the edge to observe is on the left. My jaw dropped at the visible details. No crop. My own limited edit from Sam's RAW file. I seriously question if any current Leica could do better before the profile. If one lens lover and his tech can hit these notes starting with an off the shelf A7rii, you think Konost can't find a sensor to shoot M?

Konost knows full well they cannot charge too much money, and that was never the plan anyway. I'd guess it's the sourcing to keep pricing low which is what they are up to. Leica had to do the same thing, since they don't make any of the fundamentals themselves, but assemble. Check me there if somebody knows better.

A small Barnack style M body is doable, and inevitable. Alot more people would be interested in that than a new film camera. This same little Konost could take all sorts of other lenses as well. Look at how many adapters were suddenly made for the Nex-5. The majority of this market is not in the west at all. :)

Many they will not pull it off. It's nice they try, and others will too. In today's very tight market, a niche is not nothing. And this particular niche is occupied by a core of RF lens zealots who will not settle for small sensors or a few native prime options. :)
 
tom.w.bn said:
The negativity in your post towards Leica is astounding. Especially because you criticize the negativity of other people here.
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Leica doesn't need my encouragement. Leica has already mastered separating people from their money using off the shelf digital components that other cameras makers incorporate and introduce sooner and at far less cost to the consumer---and not to mention in a manner that is likely far better executed. At one time Leica pioneered the development of 35mm photography and was the camera of choice for professionals. Today Leica seems more interested in limited edition bling. Perhaps this is the only business model for them that works. Doesn't mean I have to like it.

I am rooting for Konost. In the meantime I will enjoy using my M3. Now that's a camera from Leica's long past glory days. ;)

If I buy another Leica it will be an M7 to pair with the M3.
 
uhoh7 said:
Can you quote some of their promises, which have you so disappointed?
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How about "Ready for preorder in early 2016"? :rolleyes: Fast forward a year later, and there are only really bad renderings on their website.

I'll buy the Hermes special edition when it's out. :D

Leica has never done anything except pick off the shelf items, which already existed.
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Haha, good one!
 
I'm a goin..to a ride..my Unicorn now..
He is all juiced up and ready to go..
Unlike Konost..
But we are just having a bit of fun here..foolin &..joking around..
What else to do..lol..
But..
I've seen a lot of vaporware in the photo industry from LF on down..
It would be nice to see this succeed..!
But I wouldn't count on it..
Hi ho Silver awaaaaaay.....
 
Emile de Leon said:
I'm a goin..to a ride..my Unicorn now..
He is all juiced up and ready to go..
Unlike Konost..
But we are just having a bit of fun here..foolin &..joking around..
What else to do..lol..
But..
I've seen a lot of vaporware in the photo industry from LF on down..
It would be nice to see this succeed..!
But I wouldn't count on it..
Hi ho Silver awaaaaaay.....
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You have a Silver Unicorn! Even better!

I'm holding out for the Gold "Oscar Barnack" version :D
 
Here's something to chew on. Laugh at Konost if you will, but in two years, Konost will have a better chance of surviving than Nikon. And it's certainly possible neither one will be around.
 
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