How do you check used M8 quality...?

[tariq_za]

Hi all, my first post on these forums so please do forgive the noob if I'm posting this at the wrong place. I'm from sunny South Africa and the opportunities to get a used Leica M8 or M9 are VERY rare... an opportunity for a used Leica M8 has popped up at a very good price however, and I wanted to know if any of you have any advice on how to check the camera / lenses.

1) It's coming with a Voigtlander 21mm f4 and 40mm f1.4 lens... any specific things to look out for?

2) How can I quickly check the rangefinder mechanism, focusing issues etc?

Thanks much for all the help...

 

[GrahamWelland]

It's pretty easy if you've been shooting RF cameras already since the important issues are the same.

RF alignment - it should be extremely obvious that the RF patch is clear and the horizontal/vertical alignment are in synch. A well focussed image should 'pop' in the viewfinder. If you have to angle your eye/camera to get horizontal alignment - it's off. This isn't a big deal but it isn't something you can easily adjust yourself. (red dot has to come off, you need a special tool, skills & experience etc.). A regional Leica repair shop should be able to handle this, plus it's relatively easy to bump RF alignment so not exactly an unusual tune up.

I'd check that the RF and the image match so that there's no front/back focus issues. Focus and shoot wide open some easily definable subjects and compare the image focus point with what you thought was in focus. This can be due to either/both camera and lens. Try shooting a ruler laid down at 45% or a line of book spines, focusing on a defined point and comparing the results from the files.

I would check the DNG raw file for dead or bright rogue pixels. Similarly watch out for any vertical single pixel lines in the image which can also be caused by rogue pixels. This can be easily fixed with a sensor remap but that means a trip to the Leica facility which I suspect is Solms for SA.

For an M8 I'd also put the camera in continuous shooting mode and fire off salvos of shots to make sure that the known original shutter recock problem isn't present. This can be intermittent but would kick in with a random multi-shutter re-cock (easy to tell when you're using it vs trying to describe).

In general the reliability pecking order is M9, M8.2, M8 (upgraded) and then M8. The very first batches of M8's also had a recall for electronics fix, although you'd be very unlucky to find one of those that wasn't fixed for free.

Good luck with your M purchase and warn your bank/credit card company that they'll be heavily used in the future when the Leica bug hits. 😀

 

[Ming Rider]

How do you check used M8 quality?

How do you check used M8 quality?

The commonly accepted method is to shake it feaverishly for several minutes. Then immerse in a bucket of salted water. Finally, bang hard against a brick wall.

 

[tariq_za]

Hehhe... thanks much for the advise, that's a very concise and clear reply... much much appreciated.

As for the Leica bug, already bitten even though I'm not a Leica owner (yet). Was steadfastly saving up for a Leica M9 when this popped on the market, so going to take a look at it this afternoon and see if it is up to scratch 🙂 Can't wait, to be honest, been lusting after a Leica for quite a while now... Just one more question, the electronics problems on the first batch of Leica M8's - anything specific I should look out for?

Thanks again,

 

[Olsen]

The no. 1 priority is to look for The Red Line. Absolutely all M8s I know of (even a few M8.2s and a M9s) have had this problem. A red line appears in the middle of the picture. It starts at high ISO settings, but can be seen on lower ISO settings after a while. The camera has to be sent to Solms for 'the Red Line Fixing'.

All the M8 cameras I know of have been to Solms for the Red Line Fix. If this camera has not been to Solms for this fixing you can be absolutely sure that it will develop this fault. If it has been to Solms for fixing - fine if seller can document this, the camera is OK, - and will be OK.

Don't worry about the rangefinder. They work flawlessly.

What all buyers of 2.hand digital cameras should be aware of is that a digital camera has far more shutter actuations than similar film cameras. This wears out the shutter much faster. This is regardless if they are Canons, Nikons or Leicas. A buyer of a 2.hand digital camera should calculate with that the shutter has to be replaced sooner or later. But that's no big deal. You will find Leica far cheaper than competition regarding shutter replacement - or just any other service.

Also, calculate with a replacement battery. All too many M8 users seem to be pulling out just everything of some old batteries.

 

[GrahamWelland]

The left & right sides of the sensor are read independently I believe and this can result in a very feint vertical line between the two sides. It normally only shows in extreme post processing and really just needs a sensor remap to kill the bright/dark pixels.

I've read about it in the forums but nobody I know personally has ever run into this, and certainly not as ubiquitous as you would make out from this post.

 

[Olsen]

Absolutely all M8s sold here in Norway have been to Solms for The Red Line Fix. Even a M8.2. Absolutely all the M8s I know of have been to Solms. One guy at the Leica forum had just recently bought a 2.hand M8. He confirmed that it also had the Red Line Problem. I will argue that if a M8 hasn't been to Solms it has the Red Line Problem, - or will get one.

 

[Ben Z]

If this camera has not been to Solms for this fixing you can be absolutely sure that it will develop this fault.

Since you have absolute knowledge this is inevitable, about how many years will it take? My M8 is from mid-'07 and does not have any red line yet. I counted sixteen people I know personally who have M8's, none have red lines. Admittedly, the only person I know personally with an M8 from the very first batch is Jaapv...but I don't recall him having a red-line issue unless I missed it.

What all buyers of 2.hand digital cameras should be aware of is that a digital camera has far more shutter actuations than similar film cameras.

Not mine. I've never felt compelled to shoot more just because film and developing cost are excluded. The thought of having to hash through thousands of images on the computer, many of them nearly identical, is enough of a deterrent for me. Quite a few people I know feel the same way. Maybe one's first digital camera, after switching from film. After a while the novelty wears off and sensibility sets in.

...A buyer of a 2.hand digital camera should calculate with that the shutter has to be replaced sooner or later.

Every digital camera I've ever bought, save for the M8, has been used. Never replaced a shutter so far.

But that's no big deal. You will find Leica far cheaper than competition regarding shutter replacement - or just any other service.

Things must be vastly different in Norway. Here in the USA Canon charges around $150 to replace a shutter in an EOS body. Leica charges $750 to replace an M8 shutter out of warranty.

 

[jaapv]

Since you have absolute knowledge this is inevitable, about how many years will it take? My M8 is from mid-'07 and does not have any red line yet. I counted sixteen people I know personally who have M8's, none have red lines. Admittedly, the only person I know personally with an M8 from the very first batch is Jaapv...but I don't recall him having a red-line issue unless I missed it.


T.

Both my bodies - both first batch - have no red line, nor any other documented problems. Nor 9 others I have direct and up-to-date knowledge of.

 

[maggieo]

Almost 30,000 frames on my M8, no red line problem.

 

[user237428934]

Probably the climate in Norway is the cause for the red-line-problem?
My M8 has the problem that sometimes a broad green line shows in the picture when a strong light source hits the sensor in the outer areas (was it called banding problem?).

 

[sheepdog]

I more than probably got one of the first batch of Norwegian ones when I bought my used one last week - the serial number is below 3100300.

I never got anywhere near the red line problem before I got a single, permanent shutter fault yesterday. Hard luck? :-(

The response from Leica customer service was that they need to have me send it there, and that the cost may be up to €700. Kinda sucks when I stretched my budget to afford a €1500 camera in the first place..

Suggestions on how to proceed at the lowest possible cost are welcome 🙂

 

[squirrel$$$bandit]

I had the red line. You definitely should check for it. Take a photo with the lens cap on at ISO 2500, then examine the file really carefully. Even if you can't download the photo, just zoom in on the camera and sweep along the top and bottom edges. If the line's there, you won't miss it.

My M8 was a demo unit with around 3000 actuations. Leica NJ replaced the sensor free under warranty and adjusted everything else to factory spec as well.

The M8 is an awesome camera, BTW, and those two Voigtlander lenses are quite good as well. I know the 40/1.4 only by reputation and have owned two copies of the 21/4.

 

[alecgold]

that sucks!
hmm, only thing I can come up with.. get the upgrade! you get a more silent shutter back and it won't cost that much more.

 

[jaapv]

Probably the climate in Norway is the cause for the red-line-problem?
My M8 has the problem that sometimes a broad green line shows in the picture when a strong light source hits the sensor in the outer areas (was it called banding problem?).

No- all M8s do that the only remedy is to watch your specular highlights.😱

 

[jaapv]

that sucks!
hmm, only thing I can come up with.. get the upgrade! you get a more silent shutter back and it won't cost that much more.

+1. The upside is that you will get a full year guaranty on the whole camera, whatever you choose.

 

[jaapv]

Hi all, my first post on these forums so please do forgive the noob if I'm posting this at the wrong place. I'm from sunny South Africa and the opportunities to get a used Leica M8 or M9 are VERY rare... an opportunity for a used Leica M8 has popped up at a very good price however, and I wanted to know if any of you have any advice on how to check the camera / lenses.

1) It's coming with a Voigtlander 21mm f4 and 40mm f1.4 lens... any specific things to look out for?

2) How can I quickly check the rangefinder mechanism, focusing issues etc?

Thanks much for all the help...

Focussing issues are just a bargaining point, not a reason not to buy the camera. Any competent Leica repairman can solve those at quite reasonable cost.

 

[MCTuomey]

M8 shutter recock problem: isn't this remedied by just swapping in a fresh batt and card? i mean, you don't have to upgrade for just this reason, right?

 

[tariq_za]

Hi all... Again, thanks much for all the advice. Thought I'd update ya on the purchase. As my luck would have it, this specific model does have the red line issue, its occasionally visible at ISO 640 (depending on the exposure) and visible most of the time at ISO 1250 and ISO 2500. Long story short, despite this flaw I bought the camera:

1) Considering how rare this camera is out here, and the great price I was getting on it... ($1700 including the lenses - might not seem like an awesome price, but out here it really is) it still seemed like a great buy.

2) I'm planning to call up the only local official Leica trader and find out if they can do the sensor remapping for free (the camera wasn't even registered on the Leica owner's section, and I'm now the official registered owner). Also planning to do the upgrade at some point in the future (the quieter shutter) and figure they should do the sensor remapping when I get that upgrade at the very least.

3) While I wait on the fix, I can easily incorporate Pixel Fixer into my workflow. It seems to work well enough 🙂 I believe I owe jaapv a nod of thanks for pointing this out in one of the other forums.

Just a few notes: If anyone knows of any equivalent for Pixel Fixer on Mac OS, please do lemme know. Secondly, LOVING the camera 😀 I love that analogue feel, the sturdy build, the slower, more thoughtful approach to composing a candid photo... Finally, I've managed to remove the Voigtlander 40mm f1.4 lens hood (methinks tis the LH-5) and can't seem to reattach it (it doesn't fasten tightly, just sits loosely) - if anyone is familiar with this specific lens and hood combo, either I'm missing something really obvious or I've managed to break it 😱 - advice / suggestions would be much appreciated.

 

[GrahamWelland]

Tariq,

Seems like you snagged a nice deal there with the lenses too. Enjoy the camera and ignore the nay-sayers who lurk here.