How do you justify the Leica prices (for yourself) ?

[jsrockit]

The M9... sold a bunch of used items (photographic [M8.2] and non) to get the cash because I wanted a digital camera that was closest to my favorite film camera, the M6. Regarding lenses, I only own a 50mm summarit 2.5 as my only Leica lens (bought used)...the rest are CV or Zeiss because I cannot justify Leica lens prices.

 

[mfunnell]

Some perspective (if you'll excuse the word). There's some Leica equipment I'd love to own but can't and won't afford, but Leica isn't the only company who produces expensive lenses. In some ways I lust after this even more:

http://www.adorama.com/CA400282U.html

It may not be the kind of shot that's much appreciated around here, because it's not the kind of photo many here like to take. But as much as I like, well, Leica-like photos, I also enjoy this kind of thing:



It isn't the best photo in the world, and far from my best shot of a Rainbow Lorikeet. But it was taken this afternoon, and the lens I took it with is not a Leica lens, won't mount on a Leica camera and probably never will nor should. It's also the most expensive lens I own. The one referenced above is a lens I'd dearly love to own, but can't or won't afford.

Sometimes I think people here get too carried away. Leica isn't the only photographic company in the world which produces very expensive equipment.

...Mike

 

[David Hughes]

So you justify it with 'it is my money'. I agree as long as you can justify it to yourself it is ok (as long as it is legal and so on).

I have a lot of other things to spend money on and my photograpic adventures can be done with much cheaper alternatives. So I guess I can not justify leica prices.

Um, well, I was justifying not justifying as it's my money and that's the end of the matter. So I asked who I had to justify it to.

My fear is that they will knock on the door and ask me to justify buying German equipment when English is available. Pointing out that I'm Welsh and the Germanicans* were a Celtic tribe also might not get me far.

Regards, David

* The ones the Romans duffed up, not Hitler's dream world.

 

[Kent]

I can't.

That's why I only own the (relatively) "reasonably" priced Leica stuff and fill the gaps with other brands. 😱

 

[anjoca76]

Photography for me is purely a hobby. I love it, but it's a hobby, therefore I buy used and only buy what I really want and what I can afford. I guess that means I "justify" it to myself before buying something for photography.

When it comes to music, however, which I do semi-professionally, and at times professionally, I have no problem investing in top-notch guitars, amps, etc., because I need to rely on them for my career. I need to know my guitar is well-maintained and will work and that it will sound as best as it can. I can't cut corners when it comes to music gear. Justification isn't really needed.

When I go to the classifieds and see someone selling off excess gear and see numerous lenses going for $3K and $4K apiece, I am dumbfounded that anyone could possibly have much money invested in glass, but then again, if those people actually needed them for professional work, then so be it. If you can afford it and you need it, the more power to you! Life is too short. You can't take it with you!

 

[Paul Luscher]

Why. because I kinda fell into Leica with the type of shooting I was doing, and still do. And now, with a load of Leica glass, and only ONE digital rangefinder in the market ( guess whose?), it made (ahem) economical sense to buy the M9, rather than have my lenses gather dust on a shelf.

Also, if you've ever shot Leica: You'll know why you buy 'em. You 'll know...

 

[KM-25]

How I justify any photographic purchase is how it is going to enable me to get the image I want...

I bought Leica to use for shooting over a thousand rolls of Kodachrome. It made a difference in certain light, not so much in others. It also made certain types of images easier to get and some harder, I saw no difference in using a FM3A or a Leica M6 in shooting street, focusing being faster on the FM3A when the subject was not centered resulting in less "Hang-time" in terms of the camera being at your eye. My professional opinion as to Leica being the best camera for street? Not really, it is up to the photographer, I get great street photos with a Hasselblad for pete's sake…

After Kodachrome was done, i sold most of the really expensive Leica gear, simply did not see the same difference in using it with a month long rental of an M9. A few seconds of adjusting the sliders in post with an image from a D700 or X100 in post, viola, Leica image!

So last year, I re-assembled a lighter kit, M6, M3 along with a 28 CV, 35 F/2 asph, 50 F/2 ZM and a rarely used 90 CV. I also used an FM3A with a 35/2 AIS, all with Tri-X. When I printed the images from the Leica 35/2 and the Nikon one and looked at them with other people, we really saw very little difference in technical terms but saw a fairly significant difference in composition and impact…

Because I could see what I was doing in terms of background versus foreground and focusing subjects off center, 8 times out of 10, the images made with the FM3A and 35 F2 were simply better.

Last week, I sold everything except one M3 and the 50 ZM and put all that wonderful cash into thousands of dollars worth of paper, film and chemistry.

A few years ago, I could justify using more Leica gear, including the 50 asph, not anymore, especially with the prices the way they are and killer cameras like the silent X100. Sure, they are fun to use, feel good, look neato, pretty quiet, but when it comes right down to it, I am a photographer first and the impact of the photograph is essential.

As a professional photographer who's future rests on shooting images with great impact and then selling fine art black and white darkroom prints, in terms of how the photos turn out, I see hardly any reason to justify the new and used prices of Leica gear.

No regrets in buying it for what I needed it for, no regrets in selling it because the job is done and the money is better used for other needs...

 

[Messsucherkamera]

If one can afford to buy something, there is no need to "justify" to anyone. If one needs a tool for the business, there is only the business decision. If neither of the aforementioned situations are applicable, one buys what one wants.:angel:

That pretty much says it all.

Buying Leica cameras and lenses is an investment for a lifetime, not a self centered indulgence for the foolish yet well heeled.

I carry and use my Leica M gear every day. My M4-P and lenses have opened the gates to a whole new dimension of photographic vision and way of making images. I sold off my Mamiya 7ll kit with three lenses to help fund my Leica investment. I have never regretted making that choice. Sometimes bigger is not always better.

In the end, it's not about money and "justification." Its about making images and in a way that makes the process and the end product more enjoyable.

I do not want the words, "He could not 'justify' the cost of a Leica camera" carved on my grave stone. Where's the glory or wisdom in that?? 🙄

 

[Ronald_H]

As said, the results don't justify the price in my mind. Not even in the case of my second hand kit I looked long and hard for. But granted, it is damn nice to own something like this:


Camera porn - Recovered Leica M2 w. Summicron DR by Ronald_H, on Flickr

 

[n5jrn]

Buying Leica cameras and lenses is an investment for a lifetime, not a self centered indulgence for the foolish yet well heeled.

Actually, it's many things for many people and like it or not making an affluence statement has pretty much always been a factor in purchasing Leica equipment for some people. Really, how else does one explain something like the Luxus (came out in 1930)? Precisely what practical photographic purpose can gold-plating a camera body serve?

And then there's all the collectors who purchase Leicas just to stick them in a glass case, lest any signs of actual usage cause their value to plummet.

It's more than just that, of course. In addition to being a luxury brand that appeals to the well-heeled, Leica products also have attributes that make them excellent photographic tools, and have been the favorites of some professional photographers (and many amateurs) for years as well.

But, make no mistake, snob appeal has always been part of the picture. At least for some.

 

[Keyne]

The justification for me was I wanted a digital RANGEFINDER camera. The first "real" camera I used was my Dad's old Vitomatic II rangefinder, but with digital I had gone in a different direction with all the bells and whistles. I wanted to get back to the basic and simple RF process. I could have bought an Epson or an M9 but I thought the Epson was too old and the M9 too expensive so the M8 was it.

I have owned it for a year and love it more than the day I got it. It has made photography FUN again. This was confirmed on a recent trip with my "more advanced" digital MFT camera... I hated the viewfinder... didn't like all the controls that could be changed. Couldn't wait to get back to my simple M8.

I will keep it as long as I possibly can. Heck I even store it out on a shelf in my living room because I even enjoy just looking at it. Photography is a hobby for me and the Leica has made every aspect of it fun.

 

[Roger Hicks]

But, make no mistake, snob appeal has always been part of the picture. At least for some.

I've never been sure exactly whom they thought they were going to impress, though. All right, it's hard to ignore a Luxus, but Mamiya, Rollei, Hasselblad and maybe others have brought out gold-plated cameras too, and have never (or very rarely) been accused of snob appeal. But unless you're carrying a gold-plated camera, who is going to notice you're carrying a Leica? Or anything else? A few fellow photographers might, but even then, how impressed are they going to be?

Cheers,

R.

 

[Keyne]

I've never been sure exactly whom they thought they were going to impress, though. All right, it's hard to ignore a Luxus, but Mamiya, Rollei, Hasselblad and maybe others have brought out gold-plated cameras too, and have never (or very rarely) been accused of snob appeal. But unless you're carrying a gold-plated camera, who is going to notice you're carrying a Leica? Or anything else? A few fellow photographers might, but even then, how impressed are they going to be?

Cheers,

R.

It's interesting that you mention that. I was surprised how many people notice a Leica. For instance, when I was traveling in Australia 3 people in the Circular Quay area (waterfront around the Opera House) said "Ohhh Leica" one guy even called out to me from his cafe seat. Nice guy and he frequents RFF and was ordering his own M. That being said I find it more concerning than positive. I would prefer people didnt know I was carrying a $2,500 camera body + lens.

 

[Roger Hicks]

It's interesting that you mention that. I was surprised how many people notice a Leica. For instance, when I was traveling in Australia 3 people in the Circular Quay area (waterfront around the Opera House) said "Ohhh Leica" one guy even called out to me from his cafe seat. Nice guy and he frequents RFF and was ordering his own M. That being said I find it more concerning than positive. I would prefer people didnt know I was carrying a $2,500 camera body + lens.

Equally, I find it surprising that you get such a reaction so often. At most, I'd guess that half a dozen people a year comment on my Leicas. Though once I did have two people in one day (in Lijiang) comment on my Alpa.

Next question: is it probable that the people who notice Leicas are the ones who are going to steal them?

And, just because someone knows that Leicas are 'expensive cameras', it does not mean that they can easily tell an M2 (a few hundred dollars) from an M9 (several thousand).

Don't get me wrong: I'm not arguing with you. It's just a line of inquiry that I'd be interested to see developed.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Keyne]

Equally, I find it surprising that you get such a reaction so often. At most, I'd guess that half a dozen people a year comment on my Leicas. Though once I did have two people in one day (in Lijiang) comment on my Alpa.

Next question: is it probable that the people who notice Leicas are the ones who are going to steal them?

And, just because someone knows that Leicas are 'expensive cameras', it does not mean that they can easily tell an M2 (a few hundred dollars) from an M9 (several thousand).

Don't get me wrong: I'm not arguing with you. It's just a line of inquiry that I'd be interested to see developed.

Cheers,

R.

Good question. I guess I assume that if they know its a Leica they know it's valuable. I wonder if I would feel the same way with a Canon pro camera around my neck and someone says "Canon!". I guess IMO Leicas are still pretty rare, so if someone notices I do wonder... hmmm are they going to rob me or just interested.

 

[kbg32]

Leicas last a lifetime. I've still have and use my 1967 M4. I hope to pass it on to my son.

 

[dave lackey]

Equally, I find it surprising that you get such a reaction so often. At most, I'd guess that half a dozen people a year comment on my Leicas. Though once I did have two people in one day (in Lijiang) comment on my Alpa.

Next question: is it probable that the people who notice Leicas are the ones who are going to steal them?

And, just because someone knows that Leicas are 'expensive cameras', it does not mean that they can easily tell an M2 (a few hundred dollars) from an M9 (several thousand).

Don't get me wrong: I'm not arguing with you. It's just a line of inquiry that I'd be interested to see developed.

Cheers,

R.

Agreed! No one ever notices the M3 or any other Leica even with a red dot as far as I know except twice in two years... one person at a small town fall festival who just happened to see me taking pictures with the D40 noticed the M3 hanging on my shoulder. He only knew of a Leica because he always wanted one but is on disability and his dream never materialized. The next was a few months ago at a BMW car show in Greenville, S.C. where someone noticed the "M2" because he inherited his dad's and sold it for cash... He had no clue other than the appearance being similar to a camera he didn't want. He bought a Nikon point and shoot with the cash.

Leica is not generally well-known in most parts of the U.S. as far as I have seen.

 

[n5jrn]

It's interesting that you mention that. I was surprised how many people notice a Leica. For instance, when I was traveling in Australia 3 people in the Circular Quay area (waterfront around the Opera House) said "Ohhh Leica" one guy even called out to me from his cafe seat. Nice guy and he frequents RFF and was ordering his own M. That being said I find it more concerning than positive. I would prefer people didnt know I was carrying a $2,500 camera body + lens.

I get far more comments from strangers about my IIIf than I do about my Panasonic LX3 or my two Pentax SLR's. Most of them are expressing surprise I can still find film for such an old camera (apparently many folks are unaware of how long 135 film has been around), or are wondering what kind of camera it is. Maybe 10 to 20 percent of the comments mention Leica explicitly.

 

[Messsucherkamera]

It's not just the well heeled or status seeking elitists who own and Leicas. Some save and scrape for years to acquire them. It's a matter of priorities for some. For some, it's a photographic quality of life thing.

Some people have boats. Some have motorcycles. Some have fly rods. Some have woodworking shops. Then there are those who have Leicas - with no thought of status.

As for those who have gold plated cameras - some people have a need to flaunt their affluence as well as their affinity for tackiness and poor taste. 🙄

 

[Messsucherkamera]

As said, the results don't justify the price in my mind. Not even in the case of my second hand kit I looked long and hard for. But granted, it is damn nice to own something like this:


Camera porn - Recovered Leica M2 w. Summicron DR by Ronald_H, on Flickr

I usually prefer plain black Leicas but I have to admit that your chrome and blue M is awfully nice!
😉