Fred Burton
Well-known
Tri-Elmar's are in the $5,000 range. Perhaps the 35 would be better.
mooge
Well-known
another mis-communication...
I might borrow a friend's M4-P, I only want to take one lens. the tri-elmar and the 35 are the choices... which is a better choice to borrow?
and to make it worse, the tri-elmar is chrome. so I owe him my next 20 years of salary if I lose it.
I might borrow a friend's M4-P, I only want to take one lens. the tri-elmar and the 35 are the choices... which is a better choice to borrow?
and to make it worse, the tri-elmar is chrome. so I owe him my next 20 years of salary if I lose it.
amateriat
We're all light!
If you're going to do it, take the 35. Start at a simple point (and, byt some estimates, among the best points).
Then, go forth and photograph. See how it all works out (or not). From this experience will you find your answer.
- Barrett
edodo
Well-known
If you want to try the whole rangefinder thing, why not buy a M3 with a cheap wide angle (CV 25mm is nice!). Forget about the tri elmar of any summiluxes, it's too desirable/pricey anyway (wait to win the lottery first)
If I were to choose for my style of photography, I would prefer a russian Zorki with a cheap 50mm f2 jupiter over any reflex in the world, even the fastest auto exposure/focus been on the moon "reflex". Really I preffer to focus with hyperfocal and to choose manually my shades of "light" with the f16 sunny rule. It works for me. I don't like to have to look "through a dark non focused window" in order to catch a fleeing moment". No one can read the future, not even the most intelligent photographer on earth. Even a 1 second lag means you have to read the futur. With my rangefinder, the moment it's it, I shoot, and that's it.
Why I prefer a leica M over a leica screwmount is a matter of taste and functionality. The reason I prefer a leica over a Zorki is only reliability, and not myth or leica frenzy. I don't get why people keep bashing leica owners because a lot of us are not idiots but only photogs...
If I were to choose for my style of photography, I would prefer a russian Zorki with a cheap 50mm f2 jupiter over any reflex in the world, even the fastest auto exposure/focus been on the moon "reflex". Really I preffer to focus with hyperfocal and to choose manually my shades of "light" with the f16 sunny rule. It works for me. I don't like to have to look "through a dark non focused window" in order to catch a fleeing moment". No one can read the future, not even the most intelligent photographer on earth. Even a 1 second lag means you have to read the futur. With my rangefinder, the moment it's it, I shoot, and that's it.
Why I prefer a leica M over a leica screwmount is a matter of taste and functionality. The reason I prefer a leica over a Zorki is only reliability, and not myth or leica frenzy. I don't get why people keep bashing leica owners because a lot of us are not idiots but only photogs...
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P. Lynn Miller
Well-known
Inspite of what everyone here will say, there are times that you need a Leica M.
I knew I needed one when I had an assignment that called for shooting from the front row of the opera. There is no stealthier, quieter interchangeable lens camera made that I know of.
The 'pro' who was shooting from the back of the auditorium with a 400mm f2.8 could still be heard inspite of using a blimp on his full-frame Canon. I was shooting from the front row with my M5 and 28/2, 50.1.5 and 85/2 and the person two seats away did not even notice.
When doing this kind of photography, you need a Leica M.
I knew I needed one when I had an assignment that called for shooting from the front row of the opera. There is no stealthier, quieter interchangeable lens camera made that I know of.
The 'pro' who was shooting from the back of the auditorium with a 400mm f2.8 could still be heard inspite of using a blimp on his full-frame Canon. I was shooting from the front row with my M5 and 28/2, 50.1.5 and 85/2 and the person two seats away did not even notice.
When doing this kind of photography, you need a Leica M.
Svitantti
Well-known
... Or you could use a camera with shutter in the lense, like a Rolleiflex, Mamiya 6 or 7, Canonet etc. to be even more quiet ;-).
35mmdelux
Veni, vidi, vici
depends...some get a Honda, others get a Harley. sometimes the way you get there matters.
more on point: Leica has a reputation for some of the best lenses and reliable cameras. When this matters to you then you'll get one. good luck.
more on point: Leica has a reputation for some of the best lenses and reliable cameras. When this matters to you then you'll get one. good luck.
35mmdelux
Veni, vidi, vici
Except perhaps the Mamiya 7. You want quiet? You wont even know you took a pic with this rig.
edodo
Well-known
With the rolleicord/flexes you have to focus through a mirrored world! Kinda of slow process like a "reflex camera". Both mamiya RF and rolleiflex have slow lenses too so theatre works means leica M with luxes...
there was that yashica with fast fixed lens, could be used too!
Really there are some cheap fixed lens RF out there that could be better than leicas M because they are cheaper.
there was that yashica with fast fixed lens, could be used too!
Really there are some cheap fixed lens RF out there that could be better than leicas M because they are cheaper.
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mh2000
Well-known
A Leica M is not *that* small or that discrete... a Rebel G and 50/1.8 will probably get less notice than a shiny M2 with Summicron attached... there are plenty of small discrete SLRs.
Svitantti
Well-known
I got a Leica because I wanted a good RF-camera with a good finder and quiet shutter and also interchangeable lenses. There are not many in this class. A Bessa still lacks some reliability etc...
I don't care how "great" the lenses are, because I havent noticed much difference to SLR lenses I used before (maybe it is because I shoot most of the time wide open and with slow shutter speeds). However the shooting style with Leica M is what I like very much. Fast and discrete...
I don't care how "great" the lenses are, because I havent noticed much difference to SLR lenses I used before (maybe it is because I shoot most of the time wide open and with slow shutter speeds). However the shooting style with Leica M is what I like very much. Fast and discrete...
P. Lynn Miller
Well-known
You missed a very important criteria, interchangeable lenses. Yes, I own several fixed lens rangefinders that are virtually silent and my digital P&S Canon G2 is silent.
But when you need several lenses, 28mm to get whole scenes, 50mm to get actors working together and the 85mm for tight head shots, you really have no other choice that I know of.
The Mamiya 6/7 would be great, except for the complete of lack fast lenses and the bulk of the system could be a problematic.
And a TLR is completely out of the question with a fixed lens of f2.8 aperture even though it is a very quiet machine.
There are times that you need a Leica... not sure why that is such a problem with some people on this forum. Just as there are times that a sports photographer needs a 600mm f4.0 telephoto to get the picture. Cameras are just tools, bit hard to drive a nail with a screwdriver, so yes, a carpenter does need a hammer.
And a working user Leica M is no more expensive than a new Bessa R-series or Zeiss Ikon. So again not sure why owning a Leica is such a status symbol.
But I really fail to understand the reason to justify a 'need', I have a lot of photography gear that I do not need, some cheap and some expensive.
BobPS
Established
That's true... when we want it ... er I mean need it
we don't need to justify it. When my friends ask me why I bought my M6 (I just acquired it), a film camera, if it is because it makes better pictures than my canon or is it a better camera or things like that, my answer is simply because I want it ... and after I have it, turns out that I really like it. I mean, with my skill and talent (or the lack of them
) it won't make me a better photographer, but the process of taking pictures is much more enjoyable with my M6. Bob
Svitantti
Well-known
I agree and as I later wrote, I do have a Leica too (M4). It is not that expensive for what it is (or actually maybe it is, but there are no alternatives?). (I do not keep it sitting on a shelf and I have the logos taped down, so I dont think it is a status symbol for me.)
Still I think there are many ways to photograph an opera etc. and a TLR with f2.8 or even f3.5 with fast film, maybe pushed a bit, would work very well. I've shot with a Mamiya 6 at a rock concert too and the image quality was great even when pushed to 1600. Depends a lot on the case if this is ok, but F2.8 TLR would allow the film to be pushed a couple stops compared to 35mm if the point is grain and not only shadow detail.
I guess it is more about different styles and opinions but if square format and contrasty photos would do fine, I would seriously think about this way too.
Al Kaplan
Veteran
I agree that the Bessa is a decent alternative to an M. There are times when the light weight is a plus and they don't charge through the nose for black finish. It's kind of cool the way they don't get "brassed" from wear. The white plastic starts to show through the black plastic instead. I guess that it would start to show through the chrome plastic as well. I started out with a black one because it came with the black 15mm Heliar that I wanted. Now the lens is on a chrome body because the black one jammed up and it wasn't worth spending the money to repair the thing. Compared to an M it's a noisy camera. I always carry an LTM to M adapter "just in case", so I can keep shooting if this Bessa dies. Did you ever price a deep rear M lens cap for a Super Angulon or 15mm Heliar? By the time you buy an M adapter and rear lens cap you could have picked up a Bessa body. A Bessa might be considered a deep rear lens cap with a film transport system and behind the lens light meter. It's not a camera I would depend on as my only camera. That's why Leica makes M bodies.
P. Lynn Miller
Well-known
Al,
To be honest, if Cosina took a R2(do not like the new R-series much) and put a quiet horizontally travelling cloth shutter in it with a top speed of 1/2000 second, it would be Leica killer.
Yes, the finder in my M5 is better than the Bessa by a small margin and the Bessa suffers from a short EBL when focusing fast lenses. But in practice it handles and shoots just as well as a Leica M.
I find this whole Leica M snobbishness, exclusivity thing very odd. I could go out and spend $5000 for a Nikon D3 and everyone would think it 'normal' for an advanced amateur. If my hobby was bird and wildlife photographer, no one would question why I spent more for my Nikkor 400mm f2.8 than my car.
I think a lot of people on this forum just want to be 'exclusive' since owning even a new Leica M and Leica lenses is no more expensive than keeping current with the latest digital gear. If that is what you want...
To be honest, if Cosina took a R2(do not like the new R-series much) and put a quiet horizontally travelling cloth shutter in it with a top speed of 1/2000 second, it would be Leica killer.
Yes, the finder in my M5 is better than the Bessa by a small margin and the Bessa suffers from a short EBL when focusing fast lenses. But in practice it handles and shoots just as well as a Leica M.
I find this whole Leica M snobbishness, exclusivity thing very odd. I could go out and spend $5000 for a Nikon D3 and everyone would think it 'normal' for an advanced amateur. If my hobby was bird and wildlife photographer, no one would question why I spent more for my Nikkor 400mm f2.8 than my car.
I think a lot of people on this forum just want to be 'exclusive' since owning even a new Leica M and Leica lenses is no more expensive than keeping current with the latest digital gear. If that is what you want...
Svitantti
Well-known
Most people wont need 1/2000 anyway plus it could be quite hard to produce (just guessing). This would not straight away stop people from buying Leica's even if it did this to you. I think CV would have done this if it was just a matter of deciding so, also with the shutter silentness.
Many people also use the Leica for available light shooting, which means lenses are used wide open and the lenses are fast. This often means that shorter EBL is not good.
I dont have a very very expensive Leica set. I am a student and I saved money from summer job to buy one and I'm keeping my M4-kit simple. I know people have like 2 M7's and a set of Leitz glass but that is a different case.
Leica will anyway keep its value different than a Nikon D3. Less than a year and the prices have dropped from 4500 euros to 2500 or so. A Leica M bought used will probably keep its value 100% or close, depending on the case.
Many people also use the Leica for available light shooting, which means lenses are used wide open and the lenses are fast. This often means that shorter EBL is not good.
I dont have a very very expensive Leica set. I am a student and I saved money from summer job to buy one and I'm keeping my M4-kit simple. I know people have like 2 M7's and a set of Leitz glass but that is a different case.
Leica will anyway keep its value different than a Nikon D3. Less than a year and the prices have dropped from 4500 euros to 2500 or so. A Leica M bought used will probably keep its value 100% or close, depending on the case.
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mojobebop
Well-known
----
why wait?
I would check one out at a local camera store.
you will know immediately.
i knew back in college when i was shooting with
canon ae-1's.
now after nikon d200 i realised something was missing.
mojobebop
Well-known
-----------------------Which M to get ? That one that is easiest affordable for you. A M2 with 50mm Summicron can be bought for $800 to $900 in very good condition. Then you only need to get film and can enjoy photography.
where to get an affordable 50mm summicron?
i have not seen any.
januaryman
"Flim? You want flim?"
Amen to that. I pulled in an M2 for $470 and shortly after that, an M4 for about $700! Both work great, feel wonderful and are a great deal of fun to shoot with. I still need to better master Sunny 16, because I usually bring along a backup meter on non-sunny days or walks through the woods (which turned out to be WAY darker than I had guessed through and entire roll of Superia 400).