charjohncarter
Veteran
If I have to go now, I have to use BART (intercity rail system). Which is struggling with murders, robberies, and mayhem. When I get there at the Powell station; well read above. Leave it to say: dress like a bum if you don't want to be accosted (don't show your cellular phone).
Take this with a grain of salt, I'm 76 and am more aware of my safety than I used to be.
Take this with a grain of salt, I'm 76 and am more aware of my safety than I used to be.
peterm1
Veteran
I used to have a girlfriend from San Francisco who loved to describe LA as a "sh#thole" (sorry but that's her expression). Sounds very much as if SF beats it hands down in that department these days.
San Franscisco used to be on my list of must visit cities. It is now high on my list of must avoid places. I would visit just about anywhere in North Asia or SE Asia before I ever contemplated visiting SF today. I am a bit shocked that some people here seem to take it as just normal for a big city in the 21st C. I have news for you folks - it ain't normal.
I have read far too many articles about homeless bums, human feces piles on the street, drug addicts, hypodermic syringes, harassment of visitors and so forth. Who would want voluntarily subject themselves to that? And it sounds like many Californians feel the same way based on what I have read about people moving out of the state.
Lax policing and over soft governments who want to tax workers and give the proceeds to bums and addicts always leads down the same drain hole for society. Sadly we seem to have a similar problem beginning to develop in Melbourne in Victoria and for similar reasons (and i love Melbourne as much as many Americans love San Francisco - not that I am saying it is as bad just yet) . I visited Melbourne the year before last and found that in the CBD there were few street corners without bums accosting walkers-by and few city building doorways without its own mini settlement of this tranche of society. These people bummed money from pedestrians but could still be seen swilling booze, smoking cigarettes and shooting up. Apparently not so hard up for money as some pretend. They claim to be homeless - hopeless is a better name. I gather there has been some attempt to clean this up but other problems with violence from gangs still persist. Other Australian cities do not seem to suffer the same - the root cause is permissive government that allows this behaviour. If I seem to lack sympathy you are wrong. I have sympathy for the people, BUT I have none for the behaviour which they perpetrate. NONE. And even less for governments that put these people's "rights" to behave this way before any rights of ordinary families who then have to tolerate it while watching their city go down the sewer.
San Franscisco used to be on my list of must visit cities. It is now high on my list of must avoid places. I would visit just about anywhere in North Asia or SE Asia before I ever contemplated visiting SF today. I am a bit shocked that some people here seem to take it as just normal for a big city in the 21st C. I have news for you folks - it ain't normal.
I have read far too many articles about homeless bums, human feces piles on the street, drug addicts, hypodermic syringes, harassment of visitors and so forth. Who would want voluntarily subject themselves to that? And it sounds like many Californians feel the same way based on what I have read about people moving out of the state.
Lax policing and over soft governments who want to tax workers and give the proceeds to bums and addicts always leads down the same drain hole for society. Sadly we seem to have a similar problem beginning to develop in Melbourne in Victoria and for similar reasons (and i love Melbourne as much as many Americans love San Francisco - not that I am saying it is as bad just yet) . I visited Melbourne the year before last and found that in the CBD there were few street corners without bums accosting walkers-by and few city building doorways without its own mini settlement of this tranche of society. These people bummed money from pedestrians but could still be seen swilling booze, smoking cigarettes and shooting up. Apparently not so hard up for money as some pretend. They claim to be homeless - hopeless is a better name. I gather there has been some attempt to clean this up but other problems with violence from gangs still persist. Other Australian cities do not seem to suffer the same - the root cause is permissive government that allows this behaviour. If I seem to lack sympathy you are wrong. I have sympathy for the people, BUT I have none for the behaviour which they perpetrate. NONE. And even less for governments that put these people's "rights" to behave this way before any rights of ordinary families who then have to tolerate it while watching their city go down the sewer.
NaChase
Well-known
Based off my experiences in the past week, I disagree. The area in the immediate vicinity of the BART station is the same piss, crap, and needle covered place it has been for as long as I can remember. Also, $10 burger? Dude, that's downright cheap these days.
peterm1
Veteran
Did not Rudy Giulliani prove in New York in the 1990's that tough government policies backed by a zero tolerance approach to policing works in terms of turning this kind of downward slide around? NY had been like SF is now, for years only bigger, badder and more rotten and crime ridden. After these policies were implemented it seemed to change the culture, give people hope and provide a chance for the city to revitalize. I have not read reports of NY being like this for over a decade now - apparently because he cleaned up its act. In fact, quite the opposite.
http://nymag.com/anniversary/40th/50652/index1.html
The hard truth is this - as long as idiots in government mollycoddle bad behaviour they encourage bad behaviour. Some people in power seem incapable of learning that though.
nbagno
Established
SF realized when they contracted to a company to give out free needles that no one was picking them up. The are now or soon will be contracting with that same company to pick them up.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Harry Lime
Practitioner
Certain streets of the Tenderloin and Mission are wall to wall homeless and junkies, but during the day they seem to be on their best behavior and aren't a threat to pedestrians, except asking for money. Again, it's parts of these areas; not all of it. Not sure if I would make a habit of wandering through the sketchy areas at night though.
Dogpatch is supposedly pretty bad, but I haven't made it over there, yet.
Obviously certain parts of Oakland should be avoided at all cost.
I don't like the BART, because it travels through some pretty bad areas and you always hear about problems on the news.
Lots of homeless and druggies on Market Street, right in the middle of the busiest area but again, not really a threat during the day, but still not pleasant.
A lot of streets smell like a urinal at times, especially in the summer. There's feces on the streets; probably human since most people seem to clean up after their dogs. Personally I would never wear flip flops in the city, because of the feces and needles, but then again I've always been a leather shoe / boot kind of guy. Just keep an eye out, where you are stepping. You will occasionally see people smoking crack, meth, pot and shooting up etc right in the open. The smell of pot is common. It's not New York, where NYPD would shut that down in an instant. Overall SFPD is very restrained and underfunded, which isn't a surprise given the political leanings of SF.
Overall the city is walkable and shootable. The tech industry has sucked a lot of the character out of the city, but then again it hasn't been the elegant and sophisticated city it was until just after the war (WW2) in a very long time. But there is a lot to see and do in SF. There are tons of places, bars, restaurants etc to explore.
Little Italy, China town, The Embarcadero, Fisherman's Wharf, large stretches of the Mission, the Presidio, Nob Hill, Russian Hill etc are all good. Personally I don't feel unsafe and walk around with my Leicas visible and if things get squirrelly I just stick it in my jacket or bag.
Never ever, ever leave anything visible in your car. It will get stolen and you'll have your window busted. It's not just the druggies, but organized groups doing the work.
As always just keep your eyes peeled and be situationally aware.
There still is a lot to like about SF. Its not London or Paris, but those places are a whole different story. Personally I love the weather. The fog and weather make for some great pictures.
Dogpatch is supposedly pretty bad, but I haven't made it over there, yet.
Obviously certain parts of Oakland should be avoided at all cost.
I don't like the BART, because it travels through some pretty bad areas and you always hear about problems on the news.
Lots of homeless and druggies on Market Street, right in the middle of the busiest area but again, not really a threat during the day, but still not pleasant.
A lot of streets smell like a urinal at times, especially in the summer. There's feces on the streets; probably human since most people seem to clean up after their dogs. Personally I would never wear flip flops in the city, because of the feces and needles, but then again I've always been a leather shoe / boot kind of guy. Just keep an eye out, where you are stepping. You will occasionally see people smoking crack, meth, pot and shooting up etc right in the open. The smell of pot is common. It's not New York, where NYPD would shut that down in an instant. Overall SFPD is very restrained and underfunded, which isn't a surprise given the political leanings of SF.
Overall the city is walkable and shootable. The tech industry has sucked a lot of the character out of the city, but then again it hasn't been the elegant and sophisticated city it was until just after the war (WW2) in a very long time. But there is a lot to see and do in SF. There are tons of places, bars, restaurants etc to explore.
Little Italy, China town, The Embarcadero, Fisherman's Wharf, large stretches of the Mission, the Presidio, Nob Hill, Russian Hill etc are all good. Personally I don't feel unsafe and walk around with my Leicas visible and if things get squirrelly I just stick it in my jacket or bag.
Never ever, ever leave anything visible in your car. It will get stolen and you'll have your window busted. It's not just the druggies, but organized groups doing the work.
As always just keep your eyes peeled and be situationally aware.
There still is a lot to like about SF. Its not London or Paris, but those places are a whole different story. Personally I love the weather. The fog and weather make for some great pictures.
xayraa33
rangefinder user and fancier
Good point, when all this easy going liberalism and the so-called progressive-ism costs the movers and shakers and the established business interests money. ie: profits from business like tourism, then things will be made to change and change they will.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WfEtnr38fg&t=258s
aizan
Veteran
is this the article the OP is referring to?
https://tonic.vice.com/en_us/article/3k45py/san-fransiscos-homeless-crisis-is-now-a-poop-crisis
some other good reads (the first is about LA but still relevant):
https://la.streetsblog.org/2018/02/27/yimbyism-and-the-cruel-irony-of-metropolitan-history/
https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018...-builds-for-radical-action-on-housing/554768/
https://tonic.vice.com/en_us/article/3k45py/san-fransiscos-homeless-crisis-is-now-a-poop-crisis
some other good reads (the first is about LA but still relevant):
https://la.streetsblog.org/2018/02/27/yimbyism-and-the-cruel-irony-of-metropolitan-history/
https://www.citylab.com/equity/2018...-builds-for-radical-action-on-housing/554768/
charjohncarter
Veteran
wjlapier, I hope you enjoy your stay in San Francisco.
Huss
Veteran
it seems that those bashing the city have never been, but have 'heard' that's the case.
It can be better, but it is an awesome city and place to visit. I go often, with my Leicas etc, and will go again soon.
Live your life scared, and die bored. Yay.
It can be better, but it is an awesome city and place to visit. I go often, with my Leicas etc, and will go again soon.
Live your life scared, and die bored. Yay.
Harry Lime
Practitioner
I actually live in SF and while I enjoy being here we have some very real problems, with street hygiene in many areas being at the top of the list.
Obviously the tenderloin is at the top of that list, because it's basically skid row. But you're not going to go wandering around there, unless you're looking for trouble or just plain stupid. The streets in some parts of the Mission are also pretty dirty, but it's not all of the Mission.
The city itself is keenly aware of the feces and needle problem and spends tens of millions of dollars per year on cleanup. But just hosing down the streets is not going to solve the massive homeless and drug addiction problem that is the root cause.
And to be frank another very big part of the problem, that no one ever mentions, are the tens of thousands of dogs that live in SF and defecate and pee all over the place. I have never seen another city with as large a dog population as SF. The vast majority of people are diligent about cleaning up after their animal, but picking up droppings with a bag does not eliminate the urine or residue left behind on the concrete from solid waste.
Anyhow, none of this should stop anyone from visiting SF, because it is a unique special place and very photogenic. The city is not unsafe, nor is it filthy everywhere. The people are friendly and there is plenty to see and do. Most of what has been discussed here occurs in specific areas and pretty much every city on the planet has similar problems.
Brando
Member
I’v lived here for the last 20 years, have walked everywhere with my leica (M10 or MP) and have never been bothered. Just watch where you step and you’ll be fine.
pyeh
Member of good standing
Like Huss, I am also dismayed by the views of people who seem to rely on hearsay and journalistic beat-ups to form such firm opinions of the low amenity of San Francisco. I have been there a number of times over the years, the most recent in January 2016. I will be going again this October. So far I have always stayed in a hotel near Union Square.
Sure there is an inordinate number of homeless/rough sleepers/mendicants but I have never felt or been threatened by them. I don't remember the streets being especially dirty but maybe I am inured. Taylor Square in Sydney, Australia, is like a 100m long mini-Tenderloin sometimes.
In many ways I find SF is very similar to Sydney: topography, harbour, demographic variety, climate (more or less), eucalypts, scale, streets. For me it's like a parallel universe.
Sure there is an inordinate number of homeless/rough sleepers/mendicants but I have never felt or been threatened by them. I don't remember the streets being especially dirty but maybe I am inured. Taylor Square in Sydney, Australia, is like a 100m long mini-Tenderloin sometimes.
In many ways I find SF is very similar to Sydney: topography, harbour, demographic variety, climate (more or less), eucalypts, scale, streets. For me it's like a parallel universe.
Steve M.
Veteran
I'm no fan of what Guilliani did in New York. The man has zero class or scruples. Yes, New York got cleaned up, but now Times Square has been turned into a Disneyfied, soulless version of New York. In any case, New York is not San Francisco.
I first moved to S.F. in the early 80's and it was a great place to live then. It had a vibe, it had artists, it had musicians. Now it's a very strange mix of corporate tidiness, outrageous housing costs, and a homeless situation that is totally out of control. Crime, especially quality of types of crime, is just out of hand.
Blaming the liberals? It's San Francisco, not Dallas! The libs had nothing to do with any of this, it's grossly incompetent politicians and a huge, huge lack of leadership. To be blunt, the REAL problem is the google types that have moved in en mass and have absolutely nothing invested in the city. It's all about money, and it's a shame what has happened to the old guard who lent character and an artistic vibe to the Bay Area.
They're all gone now, priced out and fled to Albuquerque and places like it where they can afford to live and still speak their own mind w/o the politically correct intellectual terrorists telling them what to say and where to go. What replaced them are private corporate buses that pick up only their own work force, illegally block city buses to prevent the working class from getting back and forth, and a horde of yuppies who smugly sip their $12 a glass craft beers while rooting for the Cubs, the Red Socks, or whoever they rooted for when they still lived Back East.
These are not the people that made S.F. a great city, they're the people trying their best to turn it into Seattle, Boston, or Portland, and that's where they really belong. What have they contributed in terms of music, art or style? Not one thing. Your typical visitor won't see most of this, they'll just see the beautiful buildings and hills, as well as the in your face poverty and lack of compassion that these self satisfied corporate types could care less about. The area is still beautiful, but has become badly frayed around the edges, and it's 100% due to greed.
I really like their new mayor, and think she'll turn things around.
I first moved to S.F. in the early 80's and it was a great place to live then. It had a vibe, it had artists, it had musicians. Now it's a very strange mix of corporate tidiness, outrageous housing costs, and a homeless situation that is totally out of control. Crime, especially quality of types of crime, is just out of hand.
Blaming the liberals? It's San Francisco, not Dallas! The libs had nothing to do with any of this, it's grossly incompetent politicians and a huge, huge lack of leadership. To be blunt, the REAL problem is the google types that have moved in en mass and have absolutely nothing invested in the city. It's all about money, and it's a shame what has happened to the old guard who lent character and an artistic vibe to the Bay Area.
They're all gone now, priced out and fled to Albuquerque and places like it where they can afford to live and still speak their own mind w/o the politically correct intellectual terrorists telling them what to say and where to go. What replaced them are private corporate buses that pick up only their own work force, illegally block city buses to prevent the working class from getting back and forth, and a horde of yuppies who smugly sip their $12 a glass craft beers while rooting for the Cubs, the Red Socks, or whoever they rooted for when they still lived Back East.
These are not the people that made S.F. a great city, they're the people trying their best to turn it into Seattle, Boston, or Portland, and that's where they really belong. What have they contributed in terms of music, art or style? Not one thing. Your typical visitor won't see most of this, they'll just see the beautiful buildings and hills, as well as the in your face poverty and lack of compassion that these self satisfied corporate types could care less about. The area is still beautiful, but has become badly frayed around the edges, and it's 100% due to greed.
I really like their new mayor, and think she'll turn things around.
DMA1965
Established
I just moved out of the Bay Area after living there 18 years. If anything I have seen SF get more gentrified. I don’t think it is any worse now than 18 years ago. I personally have never stepped on a needle or feces. I never wandered the streets alone at night and during the day almost every neighborhood is crowded. I always carried myself like I belonged, and have walked around taking pictures with loads of gear. I have never been accosted. I grew up living in downtown Cleveland for years during college, so I try to use my street smarts. Walk with purpose and pay attention. Walk away from trouble if you see it and stay on well traveled and well lit streets.
There are lots of homeless and I very discretely photograph them, because they are a big part of the story of San Francisco. Here is a shot I took on the Embarcadero on the way to a baseball game. It took best of show in a photo contest at a county fair. I shot this with a Fuji XT20 the first weekend I owned it.
There are lots of homeless and I very discretely photograph them, because they are a big part of the story of San Francisco. Here is a shot I took on the Embarcadero on the way to a baseball game. It took best of show in a photo contest at a county fair. I shot this with a Fuji XT20 the first weekend I owned it.
Yokosuka Mike
Abstract Clarity
The last time I was in San Francisco my wife and I went to Enrico's Sidewalk Cafe to see jazz singer Lavay Smith perform. Just before the show started by chance my wife meet Lavay in the ladies room and she told her that we'd traveled from Japan to see her sing (not 100% true, but not a lie either) and Lavay dedicated her second song "Ain't Misbehavin'" to us. She called me her big fan from Japan. Must have been about 15 years ago but it seems like yesterday; what a wonderful night that was.
We stayed at the Hotel Whitcomb near city hall. I remember when we arrived at the hotel from the airport, the annual gay pride parade had just finished on the steps of city hall and the streets were full of the most colorful people it was quite a a sight to see.
We rode the cable cars as our primary means of transportation. We ate in the most wonderful restaurants all over the city. It was a great vacation. Of course it got even better after that because we spent the next 5 days in Sonoma county visiting wineries.
Alas, I see that Enrico's Sidewalk Cafe closed in 2006; how sad. San Francisco will never be the same for me.
Mike
We stayed at the Hotel Whitcomb near city hall. I remember when we arrived at the hotel from the airport, the annual gay pride parade had just finished on the steps of city hall and the streets were full of the most colorful people it was quite a a sight to see.
We rode the cable cars as our primary means of transportation. We ate in the most wonderful restaurants all over the city. It was a great vacation. Of course it got even better after that because we spent the next 5 days in Sonoma county visiting wineries.
Alas, I see that Enrico's Sidewalk Cafe closed in 2006; how sad. San Francisco will never be the same for me.
Mike
MikeL
Go Fish
Yeah, loved to see them perform. My sister went to college with one of the skillet lickers and had them to play at her wedding. Great show.
I walk around SF with my 2.5 year old, not worried. I stay out of certain areas and treat people with respect. Yeah, I could do without poop and needles wherever I go, but for me it brings sadness/empathy more than anything else. People are people. I've had more non-homeless be **** than homeless people in my life. Angry-crazy is angry-crazy....
Frankly, I'm more tired of people generalizing, with judgement, about a group of people or places, from someplace they are not. Isolation is not healthy....people start to dehumanize too much.
You'll have a fun time here wjlapier, just steer clear of certain areas at certain times of the day, like just about every city I've been to.
I walk around SF with my 2.5 year old, not worried. I stay out of certain areas and treat people with respect. Yeah, I could do without poop and needles wherever I go, but for me it brings sadness/empathy more than anything else. People are people. I've had more non-homeless be **** than homeless people in my life. Angry-crazy is angry-crazy....
Frankly, I'm more tired of people generalizing, with judgement, about a group of people or places, from someplace they are not. Isolation is not healthy....people start to dehumanize too much.
You'll have a fun time here wjlapier, just steer clear of certain areas at certain times of the day, like just about every city I've been to.
filmtwit
Desperate but not serious
On the good side, there are a few photo exhibits in town, a few are free too.
1) Oeir 48 Photography
I caught this exhibit a few weeks back, it definitely in the must see as it has work from the likes of Jim Goldberg, Bruce Gilden, Paolo Pellegrin and quite a few others. The Gallery is huge, so each exhibit within is actually pretty big as a whole.
The only downside is that you can only get tickets to see the work on weekdays.
More at
http://pier24.org/exhibitions/
Make an apointment
http://pier24.org/visit/
2) SF MOMA
Susan Meiselas retrospect. I caught this one today, broad exhibit as a whole.
https://www.sfmoma.org/exhibition/susan-meiselas/
3) BAMPF
I caught the exhibit over the weekend and it is definitely worth seeing. They are displaying about 145 prints (out of 160) from a traveling exhibit of Peter's work. All prints are by Peter Hujar too, so this should be as good as it gets.
The exhibit
https://bampfa.org/program/peter-hujar-speed-life
Upcoming talk on October 27th
https://bampfa.org/event/conversatio...th-peter-hujar
4) Leica Store SF
Gus Powell - Bystander. Haven't yet caught this one.
http://gallery.leicastoresf.com/exh...ions/bystander-street-photography-exhibition/
Enjoy
1) Oeir 48 Photography
I caught this exhibit a few weeks back, it definitely in the must see as it has work from the likes of Jim Goldberg, Bruce Gilden, Paolo Pellegrin and quite a few others. The Gallery is huge, so each exhibit within is actually pretty big as a whole.
The only downside is that you can only get tickets to see the work on weekdays.
More at
http://pier24.org/exhibitions/
Make an apointment
http://pier24.org/visit/
2) SF MOMA
Susan Meiselas retrospect. I caught this one today, broad exhibit as a whole.
https://www.sfmoma.org/exhibition/susan-meiselas/
3) BAMPF
I caught the exhibit over the weekend and it is definitely worth seeing. They are displaying about 145 prints (out of 160) from a traveling exhibit of Peter's work. All prints are by Peter Hujar too, so this should be as good as it gets.
The exhibit
https://bampfa.org/program/peter-hujar-speed-life
Upcoming talk on October 27th
https://bampfa.org/event/conversatio...th-peter-hujar
4) Leica Store SF
Gus Powell - Bystander. Haven't yet caught this one.
http://gallery.leicastoresf.com/exh...ions/bystander-street-photography-exhibition/
Enjoy
Leica All Day
Veteran
Well said Mike. I am currently in Fort Lauderdale visiting my parents and wish I was going to S.F., but unfortunately not on this trip. I just spent a couple of days in L.A. and the thing that surprised me most was all of the ash that was clearly visible from the fires.
Have fun in S.F. wjlapier.
cheers, michael
Disappointed_Horse
Well-known
I have been to San Francisco twice and had a great time there, including getting married at City Hall (right in the middle of the Tenderloin). Never been accosted or had any problems whatsoever.
SF is like any other big city (and frankly most small ones). You need to be careful and aware of your surroundings. Meet people's eyes, but smile and don't challenge them. If you look like prey, there's a distinct chance you will be.
Do not miss the Irish coffee at the Buena Vista!
Because that's what it is—propaganda.
SF is like any other big city (and frankly most small ones). You need to be careful and aware of your surroundings. Meet people's eyes, but smile and don't challenge them. If you look like prey, there's a distinct chance you will be.
Do not miss the Irish coffee at the Buena Vista!
Because that's what it is—propaganda.