How long do we think digital Leica M cameras will last?

[Darthfeeble]

All these problems begs the question "What is so damn special about a Leica?" Seems people are clinging to them.
I've owned a few and I just can't seem to see what it is, other than status. My eyes revolted at using manual focus so I pedaled the last one and really am enjoying the small Sony I got in its place. At a third of the cost, it can take a dump in a couple years and I'd not be too unhappy to just get another.

 

[Godfrey]

The plastic IBIS gear on Olympus m43 bodies seems to be the biggest issue I've encountered on my digital bodies. It's annoying, but doesn't really cripple using it outside of making the sensor offcentered and showing more vignetting on one side on wider lenses. Still kind of annoying though as I really liked my EPM2 as a portable small body

I had an Oly EPxx - can't remember - and it's IBIS jammed at some point. My E-M1 (which I bought new in 2013, and was their top of the line camera replacing the E-5 DSLR) continues to work beautifully. The E-1 has no IBIS so that's not a worry on that camera at all. 🙂

I might suspect that the E-M1 and its top line successors might use light metal components rather than the plastic in the lower-end models. But ya can't know without taking it apart... Not something I do.

G

 

[Godfrey]

All these problems begs the question "What is so damn special about a Leica?" Seems people are clinging to them.
I've owned a few and I just can't seem to see what it is, other than status. My eyes revolted at using manual focus so I pedaled the last one and really am enjoying the small Sony I got in its place. At a third of the cost, it can take a dump in a couple years and I'd not be too unhappy to just get another.

Again, what problems please? Lessee:

- The 1978 M4-2 I bought in 2011 or so needed a thorough clean and lube, its view/rangefinder needed to be collimated and calibrated. Of course, it looked like it had been sitting in a dusty sock drawer for 20 years when I got it so needing a clean and service was not unexpected.
- The 2009 M9 I bought new in 2012 caught the dreaded sensor corrosion problem. Instead of having the sensor replaced, Leica offered me an M-P 240 with full trade-in value from the M9 to discount it. I liked the M-P 240 much more than the M9, never had a single issue with it.
- I liked the M10 Mono I acquired in 2022 so much I bought a second-hand M10-R from my Leica dealer, a refurbished unit ... which had obviously been knocked on its way to me as the RF collimation and calibration were off. Leica USA took care of that for me free of charge, covered under their warranty.
- The four-way controller in my original X2 went wonky 2 months past warranty. Leica USA took care of that for me free of charge as well.

That's the sum total of issues I've had with Leica cameras since 1972. I've had something on the order of 20 to 25 various Leica cameras in toto (which says more about my capriciousness than it does about the cameras...) and made tens of thousands of photos with them. I've had a similar number of Nikon, Olympus, Pentax, Sony, Canon, Fuji, and Hasselblad cameras over the same span of time, all of which have required a bit of service ... a bit more than the Leicas ... but I tend to prefer the simplicity of the Leica M and the quality of the photos Leica lenses produce. That's why they've been worth it, to me.

Seeing those lens qualities in the photos is a subtlety. If you can't see it, then buy something else because the primary reason to buy Leica cameras is to use Leica lenses in the way they were intended to be used, on the cameras they were made for ...

And I get just as irritated about autofocus on nearly any camera as you seem to be about using manual focus. I guess that's a "your mileage may vary" situation. 😉

G

 

[Darthfeeble]

Again, what problems please? Lessee:

- The 1978 M4-2 I bought in 2011 or so needed a thorough clean and lube, its view/rangefinder needed to be collimated and calibrated. Of course, it looked like it had been sitting in a dusty sock drawer for 20 years when I got it so needing a clean and service was not unexpected.
- The 2009 M9 I bought new in 2012 caught the dreaded sensor corrosion problem. Instead of having the sensor replaced, Leica offered me an M-P 240 with full trade-in value from the M9 to discount it. I liked the M-P 240 much more than the M9, never had a single issue with it.
- I liked the M10 Mono I acquired in 2022 so much I bought a second-hand M10-R from my Leica dealer, a refurbished unit ... which had obviously been knocked on its way to me as the RF collimation and calibration were off. Leica USA took care of that for me free of charge, covered under their warranty.
- The four-way controller in my original X2 went wonky 2 months past warranty. Leica USA took care of that for me free of charge as well.

That's the sum total of issues I've had with Leica cameras since 1972. I've had something on the order of 20 to 25 various Leica cameras in toto (which says more about my capriciousness than it does about the cameras...) and made tens of thousands of photos with them. I've had a similar number of Nikon, Olympus, Pentax, Sony, Canon, Fuji, and Hasselblad cameras over the same span of time, all of which have required a bit of service ... a bit more than the Leicas ... but I tend to prefer the simplicity of the Leica M and the quality of the photos Leica lenses produce. That's why they've been worth it, to me.

Seeing those lens qualities in the photos is a subtlety. If you can't see it, then buy something else because the primary reason to buy Leica cameras is to use Leica lenses in the way they were intended to be used, on the cameras they were made for ...

And I get just as irritated about autofocus on nearly any camera as you seem to be about using manual focus. I guess that's a "your mileage may vary" situation. 😉

G

Seemed to me the talk was about lack of batteries and sensors in the digital Leicas. Personally I had an M8 without a flaw short of the ones that were built in and they weren't really a problem just a limitation, but then no more that film I thought. I had a couple M9s and one suffered the sensor corrosion issue and I was too stupid to send it in for replacement. Finally I had an M10 and it was flawless for the three years I used it and only old aged eyes were the cause of its sale. So, I haven't had much to complain about but it seems several do so my question stands, what's so special about them that a person puts up with the issues? I got rid of my Leicas when they became a tool for acquiring other cameras or became a problem.

 

[Archiver]

All these problems begs the question "What is so damn special about a Leica?" Seems people are clinging to them.
I've owned a few and I just can't seem to see what it is, other than status. My eyes revolted at using manual focus so I pedaled the last one and really am enjoying the small Sony I got in its place. At a third of the cost, it can take a dump in a couple years and I'd not be too unhappy to just get another.

For many, Leica holds an image of romance, the notion of a camera for life. Not many other manufacturers have this reputation. Then there's the historical aspect, where many of the great photographs in history have been taken with a Leica, with famous masters like HCB, Eliott Erwitt, Jim Marshall and Mary Ellen Mark favouring them extensively. This sense of history and romance is based in perception and emotion, but it is an undeniable part of Leica's draw, and Leica capitalize on it in their marketing.

Physically, the M bodies have a sense of build quality and haptics which few others can match. Their lenses are some of the best in the world, with others only catching up in recent years. Even in the digital era, a Leica M was the smallest full frame interchangeable lens camera for some years. For me, it's a combination of image quality, haptics and feel, and history that makes me love the M cameras. Add to that the considerable cost, and most would want them to last as long as possible.

 

[Godfrey]

Seemed to me the talk was about lack of batteries and sensors in the digital Leicas. Personally I had an M8 without a flaw short of the ones that were built in and they weren't really a problem just a limitation, but then no more that film I thought. I had a couple M9s and one suffered the sensor corrosion issue and I was too stupid to send it in for replacement. Finally I had an M10 and it was flawless for the three years I used it and only old aged eyes were the cause of its sale. So, I haven't had much to complain about but it seems several do so my question stands, what's so special about them that a person puts up with the issues? I got rid of my Leicas when they became a tool for acquiring other cameras or became a problem.

The "great Leica battery shortage" is a business issue, not a design or intrinsic issue. And I'm pretty sure that it will evaporate in time, as Leica gets a handle on it. Sensors ... well, aside from the M9 'sensor corrosion' issue, I don't know of any issues other than that for old cameras past a certain age there is a limit to parts supply. That is, itself, a business issue ... Note that even older film cameras suffer from parts shortages (... let me tell you about repairing my Plaubel Makina 67's rangefinder some time ...).

For any camera make or model, if owning and using it is too much trouble or expense for any individual, they are well advised to simply move on to something else. So the question of "what's so special about them" is really groundless as it applies to just about any camera. (E.G. ... Jason Schneider recently posted an excellent article about the Ermanox cameras. They are curious and interesting, quirky and odd, and have been gone for almost a hundred years. Yet to some niche of users, they are delightful things that make lovely photographs. Why bother? Because they're there, and they're curious. 😉 )

G

 

[Leon C]

"What is so damn special about a Leica?"

To some people, nothing, to others, everything....There's only personal choice and no matter what is said someone else will have a different opinion, people believe what they want to believe regardless.

The title may as well be "How long is a piece of string"

 

[Archiver]

In 2009 new D90 was 100 cad more than open box 500D. We went with open box. To replace EOS300. Film became no sense for family pictures. I have around 100k exposures on it over years.
Good luck to have this many with film Leica.

Ironically, my M9 has 75k+ exposures in 15 years, so it's 3/4 of the way there. At this rate, it will reach 100k in another five years, fingers crossed. 🤞

 

[Freakscene]

Ironically, my M9 has 75k+ exposures in 15 years, so it's 3/4 of the way there. At this rate, it will reach 100k in another five years, fingers crossed. 🤞

Use it more!!! It’s going stale!

 

[boojum]

I have a few Leicas. The M9 was bought with a factory replaced sensor and circuit board. I like it and it goes very will with a few lenses I have. I got a Q3 43 and while it is a one man band it does not have alot of musical talent. The M9 with an Amotal or the Thypoch Simera 50 is better for image. And what is the camera for? Right, image. I am well-stocked with batteries for the M9 and M8.2 so that is alright.

But while the Leica is a very good camera and has an adoring fan base I do not think the argument can be made that it is the best camera, hand held. Better ones are cheaper and offer more. So while there will always be the adoring Leica fans I am not convinced that there are not better buys in terms of quality and price.