jankap
Established
The red dot is missing. It is a marketing problem.
How long until a Chinese company makes a digital rangefinder?
- Thread starter jsrockit
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The red dot is missing. It is a marketing problem.
Coldkennels
Barnack-toting Brit.
From what I've heard from various sources, LTM is harder to manufacture with tighter and more awkward tolerances. Add into that the fact that there's far more LTM cameras and more LTM-based adapters, all potentially running to slightly different spec, and I can see why M mount is more common nowadays.
Bloody shame, though.
f.hayek
Well-known
The last non-Leica RF maker before Pixii was Cosina. If anyone could come up with a digital RF it if they wanted to, it'd be them.
Duofold RF
Well-known
Duofold RF
Well-known
For manual focus lens, small Chinese group can arrange the supply chain to make it, but for autofocus lens, especially digital camera need to incorporate microelectronics, optical, digital image format and software, it is not an easy task and also some patent issues. I hope Cosina or Fuji will make M mount EVF camera, these companies know how and all the planforms are there, they just need to change to M mount.
jsrockit
Moderator
There is no reason for Fuji to do it though... I mean, now Voigtlander makes rangefinder style manual focus lenses for Fuji X mount. Cosina seems to be out of the body business. If someone is going to put out a rangefinder shaped M mount camera, it will be Leica. That said, it is not the same experience as an optical viewfinder / mechanical rangefinder. It can be better and it can be worse.
Pál_K
Cameras. I has it.
Digital RF cameras wouldn’t return enough on the investment to make it worthwhile. Probably no profit at all.
Sad to say, but in 2022 even digital cameras of any form (DSLR, MILC, etc) are niche products trying to survive. I think Canon, Nikon, Ricoh, Fuji, etc can produce them only because they are large enough companies. The smartphone camera is the enemy of the dedicated device called a camera. So - that is why I believe digital cameras and film cameras are of interest to a very very small group of people.
A digital rangefinder would interest an even smaller group inside an already small group. Given the resources required to design, make the tooling, manufacture the product, and test the product, I see no company (Korean or otherwise) willing to begin that adventure.
nzeeman
Well-known
i wouldnt say china can't make complicated things. did you check their technology successes recently? for example their space program is now already decades ahead of nasa and roscosmos.
but lets stay in field of photography - did you see that Yongnuo lens is now in 3rd place among all the lenses? its lens made for 1/10th of zeiss that is on 4th place. so yeah - enjoy your west delusions...
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agentlossing
Well-known
Vietnam and the Philippines are where a lot of the camera manufacture is going. Of the three digital bodies I own right now, two were made in Vietnam (GR IIIx and EM5 Mark II) and one in the Philippines (K-1 Mark II). If the training and expertise are moving there, maybe we will see new companies follow - which is something of the same we have seen in China unless I'm mistaken.
cboy
Well-known
If Cosina Japan or any country for that matter make a modern remake to Epson rd1 at least half the price of a Leica M then I and others I'd imagine would happily consider switching to one
jsrockit
Moderator
Well right but we have been waiting for that Voigtlander for over 10 years. It is not happening, so now I figure the Chinese might try because they seem interested in rangefinder gear.
ranger9
Well-known
I'm not saying it's impossible that somebody might make a different RF camera someday... I'm just saying that if it does happen, it's not going to be a cheaper version of anything. The camera companies are moving in the opposite direction: forgetting about the mass market and concentrating on making smaller numbers of higher-spec cameras that a smaller number of customers are willing to buy for much, much more money. The latest positive news in the industry -- Canon saying that the camera market has bottomed out, Nikon's imaging division making scads of money -- is all driven by this "move upscale" strategy. I don't have any trouble envisioning some boutique maker thinking it could make a go of producing an RF camera that would sell for double the price of a Leica M, but nobody's going to bother trying to make something that would sell for half the price, or less (since everyone seems to feel the Pixii is unreasonably expensive.)
aizan
Veteran
Pixii is a boutique maker of a camera ($3500 A1571) that's a cheaper version (40% of the price) of a Leica ($9000 M11), while it is also part of the upscale trend.
Another company could very well decide to follow in Pixii's footsteps.
Another company could very well decide to follow in Pixii's footsteps.
Rob-F
Likes Leicas
I don't know about switching, but I could see using one alongside my M9. That is, if it would make my outfit more versatile. I know, let's write the specs for a Chinese rangefinder successor to the RD-1. I want a full frame sensor and a low-magnification finder for wide-angle lenses. It should have framelines for 21, 24, 28, and 35mm lenses. Magnification about 0.5. A reasonable pixel count, nothing insane, say between 12MP to 18MP. ISO 6400 should be enough. But the main thing is it must retain the film-like operation and the display and control system of the RD-1. Oh, and it must be supported by a good repair/customer service.
Anyone?
cboy
Well-known
https://leicarumors.com/2022/08/07/p...th-leica.aspx/
That wish list might be more closer than what we think. Another FF rangefinder in the market is what mainly most want.
Perhaps this Lumix Leica Collab is like the Minolta Leica Collab that produced the film CL. A compact FF rangefinder perhaps in the works
That wish list might be more closer than what we think. Another FF rangefinder in the market is what mainly most want.
Perhaps this Lumix Leica Collab is like the Minolta Leica Collab that produced the film CL. A compact FF rangefinder perhaps in the works
JoeV
Thin Air, Bright Sun
From the article:
The Japanese company looks to release a mirrorless model it is jointly developing with Germany’s Leica Camera, with which it formed a tie-up in May.” (via Nikkei)
Read more: https://leicarumors.com/2022/08/07/p...#ixzz7bNPc4ipt
jsrockit
Moderator
I think that wide VF and the custom sensor would make it very expensive. There are no 12mp or 18mp sensors being made right now really. I would imagine it would have to be a run of the mill 24mp sensor.
jsrockit
Moderator
It says mirrorless, so it will not be a rangefinder or they would say rangefinder... since Leica is involved. My guess is that it could finally be a Q type camera with an M mount, but more likely the L mount.
aizan
Veteran
I’d bet on fixed lens, large sensor compact. Think Leica Q with a 24-50mm f/3.5 lens. They already have SLR-style L-mount, and I doubt they’d go as niche as making the EVF-M. Rangefinder-style L-mount is a possibility, too, but that might make the lenses too large. It’s not like the Sony a7C really caught on.
jsrockit
Moderator
Isn't the Q already developed by Panasonic? What is stopping Leica from just making a zoom Q without this partnership? Both brands have FF L mount SLR style cameras already. While I agree that the M mount is not probable (due to it being a Panasonic product too), I can certainly see it being an L mount RF shaped mirrorless. Both companies have made products with this shape for many many years. The CL has been discontinued. What catches on in the Sony world is not indicative of what will work for Leica. The L mount has a variety of small lenses by Sigma already. Add to that the plethora of manual third party focus lenses and also M mount lenses via adapter, plus a few they could launch with the body, I can see this becoming true.
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