TL7
Member
Charge $2 to 3K..
Make it out of carbon fiber..
Have a movie mode..
Chew sales outta Leica..
Maybe..
Make it out of carbon fiber..
Have a movie mode..
Chew sales outta Leica..
Maybe..
How long until a Chinese company makes a digital rangefinder?
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agentlossing
Well-known
F
former member
Guest
Yi...
www.yitechnology.com
Seems to have dropped the entire product line.
So I did a search for the Best Chinese Digital camera.
Amazon product ASIN B09N75MPQY
Barring the International brands that have their cameras made in China- I would expect more. I have several Chinese made lenses for my Leica. Some unique products, priced at about what the Sales Tax on a Leica lens of the same specifications, in terms of speed and focal length. Performance is far better than many would have you believe. All that needs to happen- Those companies get serious about making a camera, and not just joking about it. Will it happen? Come up with a brand name that is serious. I can just see a "Mr. Ding Digital RangeFinder camera". DJ Optical- good lenses, need a better marketing name.
vision dragon 视觉龙
That will strike fear into the hearts of the competition, and invokes the Chinese Dragon...
YI Technology
See What Matters. AI vision solution. Affordable and accessible for any consumer and business
www.yitechnology.com
Yi Technology
See What Matters. AI vision solution. Affordable and accessible for any consumer and business.
www2.yitechnology.com
Seems to have dropped the entire product line.
Features L-X07805 thermoplastic elastomer skin-friendly materials, which are smooth on the touch, made by Dutch company DSM Arnitel. Strong body design and soft and practical texture finished with a scratch resistance top coat.
I'd prefer metal.So I did a search for the Best Chinese Digital camera.
Amazon product ASIN B09N75MPQY
Barring the International brands that have their cameras made in China- I would expect more. I have several Chinese made lenses for my Leica. Some unique products, priced at about what the Sales Tax on a Leica lens of the same specifications, in terms of speed and focal length. Performance is far better than many would have you believe. All that needs to happen- Those companies get serious about making a camera, and not just joking about it. Will it happen? Come up with a brand name that is serious. I can just see a "Mr. Ding Digital RangeFinder camera". DJ Optical- good lenses, need a better marketing name.
vision dragon 视觉龙
That will strike fear into the hearts of the competition, and invokes the Chinese Dragon...
Last edited by a moderator:
boojum
Ignoble Miscreant
There is a limit to just how cheaply something can be made and brought to market which will feed all the folks along the way and still last and work well. I guess Yi flunked. If it were easy there would be more cameras, RF and other, entering the market. The opposite is true, camera companies are closing their doors. This throttling of the camera business is blamed on cell phone cameras which can take some really good pictures, serving the purpose of the family camera, and you can talk on it, cruise the internet and so many other things. The camera OTOH is a one-trick pony so it has to have a really good version of that trick.
agentlossing
Well-known
The sensor in the M1 was actually quite good, it's the software which fell on its face, and made an otherwise promising camera buggy and unstable. I don't doubt that a Chinese manufacturer could put together a rangefinder with good component parts, but I wouldn't have high hopes for its interface or stability.
F
former member
Guest
The M1 used the Sony sensor.
If the Chinese wanted to keep the software simple- they would bring out a Monochrome RF camera. No Autofocus, no fancy demosaic routine.
If the Chinese wanted to keep the software simple- they would bring out a Monochrome RF camera. No Autofocus, no fancy demosaic routine.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
I didn't say anything about being a "mercedes camera". I said "high build quality, quality feel and haptics". A Toyota Corolla is a high quality car: it feels good, it works well. It's not a Mercedes, but it's not a Yugo or a poorly home-built kit car.
They won't "sell a ton of them" ... Most people I show even the Leica M to, even without looking at the price, wonder why I bother with such an antiquated camera. A rangefinder camera is not the alluring new new new thing that everyone wants. The only key is that someone builds one with good build quality, good haptics, that feels good so that the people who want a nice rangefinder camera will want to buy one, and feel good about using it, and that the manufactuers makes a profit making it/selling it...
And "watch Pixii or Leica drop like a stone"? Why wish that on camera manufacturers who work their butts off to make quality photographic equipment? Why wish the companies that make what you really want but for the price anything ill? The point of there coming to be a less expensive rangefinder camera would be to expand the market, not destroy the only two companies currently building decent cameras of this type. Put Leica ... or Pixii! ... out of business, and regardless of how successful the new guys might be, you've just done Photography a huge disservice. And ultimately, yourself.
G
TL7
Member
Jeeze..
Have a fit why dont-cha..lol..
Life is competitive..
You compete..or you dont..
Right now there are no less expensive rangefinders...
Less expensive lenses..yes..and I'm sure these lenses are denting Leicas bottom line..hence their recent.."vintage..offerings"
People are not so enamored anymore of spending thousands and thousands..on el primo photo equip...with minimal improvements over the cheaper guys.
I might postulate..that these high prices make camera companies..all of em..quite vulnerable to getting smacked hard..by some upstart.
Like P doing to ..L..
Hence the growing # of lens companies coming out with cheaper stuff as well...most out of China I might add..
Pixii..sure isnt jumping into the lens market..lol..
If Chinastarts making rangefinder cams that are any good....if I were P or L..
I would be making adjustments to business plans..
All kinds of top quality electronics are now coming out of China..i-phones etc..
If photography is dying like on another thread..then things will continue on as before..as its not worth it to risk a new RF cam...
But if there are $$ to be made well..someone is going to make it cheaper.
I remember when China came into the LF and ULF markets a couple of decades ago..
And now...its gone gone gone..
They did it cheaper..and just as good..
Same old story..
Oh..and by the way..didnt you dump the Pixii as fast as you could for a loss?
Thats supporting the RF market right?? Sure thing...
Dont you think you shoulda kept that fine cam..if only to support the company you love?
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Godfrey
somewhat colored
I hope you don't get 'competed' out of your livelihood. Read with some understanding this time.
Leica chose to do some of their classic lenses because their customers wanted some of the older designs for the vintage look. Far as I am able to divine from people who have inside relationships with the company, they sell everything they make and cannot make enough. Pricing doesn't seem to be the issue. Cosina went into the market because the owner wanted that vintage look and the original Leica lenses were becoming too old, degraded, and difficult to find in appropriate condition. I don't think that Cosina sales are impacting Leica sales very much, if Leica is selling everything they can make ... If anything, it's broadening the audience for Leica bodies, both new and used.
I didn't "dump" the Pixii. I bought it with the agreement to evaluate for two weeks and see if it worked for me, with a guaranteed full return/refund. I thought it a very nice camera, but it had haptics and functional flaws that didn't work for my uses. So I returned it for a full refund, as per the agreement of sale. I then bought a new Leica M10 Monochrom, because testing the Pixii reinforced to me that a dedicated B&W digital body would be very useful to me and I'd been informed that the M10-M was soon to be discontinued. So I supported the RF camera market, yes indeed.
I don't 'love' any company. I admire what good companies do in terms of their product design and service to customers. Leica has done me well for many years on both side of that. Pixii did me very well in service also, but their current offering didn't stand up to my use in testing. I have nothing but good feelings for Pixii. TTArtisans let me down with a substandard quality lens product; Voigländer (Cosina), Zeiss, Lomo, and Leica have not.
IMO: There likely will never be an inexpensive digital rangefinder, other than a used Leica M or Pixii (I don't know what they sell for, but I guess a used Cosina/Epson R-D1 is in that class too). Rangefinder cameras are a niche market with limited sales opportunity, so discounting via volume sales will not happen and there's only so cheap a body that can be made and will sell profitably into this niche audience. That's my opinion, and I'll be happy to accept being wrong about it if a Chineses Seagull RF sweeps the market with a $1000 body that works as well as a used Leica M240 and makes you happy.
But I would suggest breathing normally until it does. 😉
G
nickthetasmaniac
Veteran
The Toyota Corolla approach works great when you're trying to sell a mass market product with broad appeal to a huge number of people.
Rangefinders are not a mass market product and will never again have broad appeal (and haven't since the '60s). No one is going to sell 'a ton of them', no matter how cheap they are. The only people who *are* buying rangefinders nowadays are a picky bunch, and I'm not sure that cheap and cheerful is going to be appealing.
As much as I don't like the prices, it's hard not to think that the 'luxury item' approach of Leica and Pixii is probably the only way to go from a business sense.
boojum
Ignoble Miscreant
When you are not a Toyota making money through volume and you want to stay in business you price your product high enough that you can make a profit. Or you go out of business. I am sure that Pixii would love Leica's sales volume.
Despite the soup-spitters, detractors and naysayers Pixii has brought a good camera to market if image is important. Barth and his crew coax a lot out of the 26MP sensor. And that is the game: make the sensor generate great images. DxO rates them highly, highest of APS-C and 28th overall including medium format. And as you know I sure like mine. As usual, YMMV.
Out to Lunch
Veteran
I thought Pixii was a French company. Cheers, OtL
Yokosuka Mike
Abstract Clarity
Out to Lunch
Veteran
I mentioned, as a matter of fact, that Pixii has nothing to do with Chinese manufacturing, and in your earlier post, you chose to be disrespectful. Not funny and not the same thing. Cheers, OtL
Yokosuka Mike
Abstract Clarity
F
former member
Guest
Well- if a Chinese company does come out with a new Rangefinder Camera, film or digital-
Please use Little-Endian DNG format. Much easier to work with.
I will be happy to give it a thorough and unbiased test.
Please use Little-Endian DNG format. Much easier to work with.
I will be happy to give it a thorough and unbiased test.
pgk
Well-known
If it was easy to build a mature, effective and cheap(er) M camera then someone would probably have done so (FF). Regardless of where such a camera might be made, it is a big ask to get a company to design and build something as good or better than a current Leica M digital camera and at a substatially lower price.
boojum
Ignoble Miscreant
I have no idea why Pixii generates so much negative comment. But these comments sure do reveal a lot about the posters.
pgk
Well-known
The Pixii sounds like a great little camera but also serves to illustrate my point above. Building a full frame M is far from easy especially if a company has no history of building rangefinder cameras.
F
former member
Guest
Building a Full-Frame Rangefinder camera is easy. Building a Full-Frame Digital Full-Frame Camera that Accommodates non-retro focus wide-angle lenses requires a custom microlens array. That is expensive as relatively small runs of the Sensor will be made, and present designs are probably only available to Leica.
Get rid of the requirement to accommodate non-retro focus wide-angle lenses beyond a certain degree- opens up the field.
Get rid of the requirement to accommodate non-retro focus wide-angle lenses beyond a certain degree- opens up the field.
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