How much developer in multi-reel tank with fewer than max number of rolls?

[philipus]

Hello everybody

I have a 5-reel stainless steel tank (Kindermann) and would like to develop 3 rolls (can't wait until I have another two).

Do I put in HC-110 for 3 or 5 rolls?

Sorry for the n00b question.

Many TIA
Philip

 

[Roger Hicks]

Dear Philip,

Standard dilution, and enough to cover 3 reels. Just leave an air space over the top.

Cheers,

R.

 

[philipus]

Hi Roger

Thanks for the lightning quick reply, much appreciated.

Just to be sure, you mean reduce the amount of liquid to that which just covers three rolls and calculate the amount of HC-110 on that basis?

Will the lower amount of liquid mean that the agitation will be "rougher", ie should I think about this when agitating?

Thank you
Philip

 

[Roger Hicks]

Hi Roger

Thanks for the lightning quick reply, much appreciated.

Just to be sure, you mean reduce the amount of liquid to that which just covers three rolls and calculate the amount of HC-110 on that basis?

Will the lower amount of liquid mean that the agitation will be "rougher", ie should I think about this when agitating?

Thank you
Philip

Dear Philip,

Highlight 1: Yes, that's exactly what I mean

Highlight 2: Don't worry about it. The importance of agitation is MUCH exaggerated on the internet. With anything resembling normal agitation, such as 5s/30s or 10s/60s, I doubt it would be possible to see or measure the difference. Only with extremely low agitation is the part-full tank likely to make a difference, and even then, I doubt it would be detectable.

(No further replies tonight -- I'm off to bed).

Cheers,

R.

 

[rodinal]

...enough to cover 3 reels...

Risky action.
I'd fill the tank.
Tank full or half-full, put two empty reels on top to complete five, just to be sure the three reels with film remain on the bottom part of the tank.

 

[philipus]

Dear Roger, thank you very much, this helps a lot. And thanks also for explaining generally about the agitation.

Likewise lights out here.

Best and thanks again
Philip

 

[Roger Hicks]

Risky action.
I'd fill the tank.
Tank full or half-full, put two empty reels on top to complete five, just to be sure the three reels with film remain on the bottom part of the tank.

Why?

Though I'll second your advice to use "empty" reels to stop the others sliding about.

Cheers,

R.

 

[rodinal]

Why?

Hi Roger,

Just because I hate to take risks when developing film and wouldn't advise anyone to do something I wouldn't do myself. Developer is cheap.

Putting the extra reels compensates very effectively a half-full tank, so I agree that both preventive measures are overkill.

M.

 

[Steve M.]

Put 3 reels in the tank and pour water into the tank until they are covered. Pour the water into a gradient. That's how much chemicals you need for 3 rolls of film. Don't forget to put the other 2 empty reels in the tank to keep things from sloshing around.

I'm not sure why Roger says what he says about agitation, He must not use Rodinal. Agitate that too much and you will have a disaster on your hands. Everything is of importance in developing, and agitation is no exception. The idea is to have a set routine for your optimal negs (found by testing), then stick to that protocol for consistency.

 

[Bill Clark]

I mostly use a Paterson tank that will hold two 35mm reels. I develop one film at a time. I usually use D76 at 1 plus 1. For each roll of film I measure 200cc(ml) of stock add 200cc of water. Since with 1 reel it says on the bottom of the tank 290ml are needed for one reel I'm a little over with 400cc.
However, I have never had a reel work up so as it is only partially covered with working solution.
My experiences.

f.y.i. I only use rotary agitation with Paterson tanks. For stainless I use inversion method. With stainless I have a tank for one 35mm reel and a tank for one 120 reel.

 

[rybolt]

If you're using stainless steel reels you should be using 8 ounces per reel. I would definitely fill the tank with both empty reels and a full tank of developer. It isn't just an agitation issue but also a good chance of developing air bells with all of the sloshing around by not having a full tank.

 

[Pioneer]

Wow! Enough different ideas about developing to start several new books.

...and you know what? I bet they all work just fine. 🙂

 

[Sam Kanga]

Hi Phillipus,

Short answer:

1) Definitively put in enough solution for 5 rolls even though you are only developing 3
2) put in all 5 reels
3) agitation is important - whichever method you use make sure you are consistent

Am I a genius? A photography master? No, I'm a lazy *******. Once I was taught how to expose, develop, print properly, and do things consistently, I spent much less time 'rasslin with my prints.

Good luck
Sam

 

[Rayt]

I would fill up the tank because I fear the agitation would become too unpredictable (too splashy) and development becomes inconsistent.

 

[Particular]

Wow! Enough different ideas about developing to start several new books.

...and you know what? I bet they all work just fine. 🙂

How about one fat volume, and we call it; "The encyclopedia of contradictory practice".

 

[Pioneer]

How about one fat volume, and we call it; "The encyclopedia of contradictory practice".

Great stuff! 😉

I usually use continuous agitation for my stuff but if I do use my 5 reel Paterson tank with only 3 films I certainly don't load it up with enough solution for 5 films. I use all the reels just to ensure that things stay where they should but I use enough solution to cover the 3 films and "splash about" at will. As Roger said I have never noticed any difference.

Of course I am a rank amateur (hope that doesn't mean that I smell) so don't take my word for it. Play around on your own and come to your own conclusions. That is what makes this hobby so fun.

 

[philipus]

Thanks for the further replies. Yes, I've also come to realise that consistency in practice is fundamental. This is why I am wondering what to do now.

It seems the consensus is I should measure how much solution I need to cover three loaded rolls in the bottom of the tank and then calculate the amount of HC-110 based on that. This is logical to me - if I use enough developer for 5 rolls, then the dilution will be too strong for 3 rolls (or rather, it would be another dilution than the one I intend to use).

Then add two empty rolls on top. And agitate as per normal.

I'll give this a go hopefully tonight.

best
philip

 

[Roger Hicks]

Put 3 reels in the tank and pour water into the tank until they are covered. Pour the water into a gradient. That's how much chemicals you need for 3 rolls of film. Don't forget to put the other 2 empty reels in the tank to keep things from sloshing around.

I'm not sure why Roger says what he says about agitation, He must not use Rodinal. Agitate that too much and you will have a disaster on your hands. Everything is of importance in developing, and agitation is no exception. The idea is to have a set routine for your optimal negs (found by testing), then stick to that protocol for consistency.

Because the difference between agitation in a half-full tank and a full tank, with anything resembling normal agitation, such as 5s/30s or 10s/60s (my original words) will be trivial.

You're quite right that I don't use Rodinal, because I don't much care for a developer that gives big grain and low film speed. But we weren't talking about Rodinal.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Hi Roger,

Just because I hate to take risks when developing film and wouldn't advise anyone to do something I wouldn't do myself. Developer is cheap.

Putting the extra reels compensates very effectively a half-full tank, so I agree that both preventive measures are overkill.

M.

So do I! Which is why I so quickly seconded your point about the empty reels -- which I'd say was a far more important safety measure.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Roger Hicks]

If you're using stainless steel reels you should be using 8 ounces per reel. I would definitely fill the tank with both empty reels and a full tank of developer. It isn't just an agitation issue but also a good chance of developing air bells with all of the sloshing around by not having a full tank.

No. Once the film is wet, the chance of new air bells forming is effectively non-existent.

Cheers,

R.