How to spot a model A fake

[kendallc]

Hello everyone,

This is my first time posting so I hope no one minds my first post being a question. But I am going to estate sale and the guy has quite a few Leica items which is very nice because I think he is pricing them very reasonably. But he has one pre-iii item (a model A) and I am trying to make sure that I go in there prepared to know if it is a fake or not. I feel pretty prepared with how to tell interchangeable lens models (roller cam follower, strap studs etc) but I am clueless on how to spot a model A fake. I don't have a serial on it and all I have is this terrible photo he took, but any tips (or a link) would be very appreciated.

Oh and just to reiterate, am not ask for value, I am wanting to know how to tell if it is a fake or not. I know that even fakes can have value, but I am not interested in those, just legit Leica. And on this one, the lens cap being all brassy like that just seems fishy. But I am not even sure if there even were any fake model A's. Even just know that would help.

Thanks a bunch for any help.

 

[Erik van Straten]

Looks genuine to me. The paint is scraped off the lens cap. The wear of the paint of the camera and the vulcanite both look OK to me. The condition is not too bad, I would say.

Erik.

 

[Livesteamer]

A Leica 1 is more difficult to fake. That one looks real to me. I don't use mine often but it is fun and can deliver fine results if used carefully. Mine likes Ektar. Let us know what happens and welcome to the forum. Joe

 

[Steve Bellayr]

There are numerous photos on the net. Download a few with different sides. Also, serial numbers are on the net that are easily downloaded.

 

[Dralowid]

From what I can see it looks real though as Erik says, someone has been messing with the lens cap. Also looks like the screws (in the vulcanite) have been badly touched up.

Not quite sure but it also looks like it has the 'normal' shutter release button which I think comes in roughly around the 15xxx mark but it may have been modified.

 

[Dez]

The camera you show looks OK as far as I can tell from the picture. I suppose it might be possible to build a model A from a newer prewar Leica and some genuine bits, but why bother?

If it starts from a Soviet camera, there will be some tells.
- The most obvious is likely to be the circular platform under the shutter speed dial. This screws onto the top of the camera, and is 5mm high. The Russian cameras have a taller shutter mechanism, so the FED-based Leica A's have a noticeably higher platform.
- There should be a small round hole in the back of the camera, about 6mm diameter. There is a plug filling it, but no vulcanite. It is used for adjusting the focus of the integral lens.
- There are four screws in the front of the body shell, and four holding the top on, front and back, and at the two ends. These are all painted black.
- All the bright metal bits are nickel plated, not chrome.
- The rewind switch arm is painted black, and its knob is nickel.
- There are 7 screwheads visible on the baseplate. The ones around the tripod socket are flatheads. The other four are cheeseheads.
- The baseplate locating pin at the end of the body shell has a very small diameter compared to that of later Leicas, about 2mm.
- The end of the wind spindle onto which the takeup spool fits is completely round, with no slot
- The lens will say F=50mm, not 5 cm. There will be no serial number on the lens
There are two different kinds of lens, one going down to about 1m, and another to 50 cm. I have one of the latter kind on my camera, which dates from 1929.

All of this of course is assuming that my model A which I am using for reference has not been modified sometime.

As I said, the camera in the picture looks like the genuine article, go buy it and enjoy shooting with a 80 year old camera.

Cheers,
Dez

 

[kendallc]

Wow thanks everyone for the info, especially Dez. That is priceless info. Sure I can see all of that stuff on the real thing but it is important to have the list of what will be different on the fakes. Big thanks.

He is selling it for $900 so I will be passing on it unless it lasts at the sale long enough to get dropped half price. It is an Elmar 5-digit serial and $900 is only a price I would pay if the rarity justified the price. But $450 would be a steal and I think there is good hope it won't go till the price drop.

He also has a iiic (high serial) in really good shape for $250 with the common Elmar 5cm so I will pick that up probably. And it looks from the photo that there is another (longer) lens that he might even throw in with it (I don't know what it is but it can only be a good thing).

Anyway thanks for the help guys. I'll send pics with what I come back with.

 

[David Hughes]

Hi,

With the lens cap on it's hard to say what it's worth. The lens might be an Elmar (common) or an Elmax or even an Anastigmat. For the last two people start thinking very serious money. As for the lens cap, they were black on brass and I suggest looking at the price of one from a dealer when judging the camera. If it has known history that would also affect the price.

OTOH, if you just want a Leica then the model II is a classic and easily available at nice prices with some good lenses in front. Easy to use and not as worrying to carry around as what I call "The Leica" camera. The model II is, alas, the one they ruin good FEDs to fake...

I don't think any one has come across a fake hockey stick Leica, I've not even heard rumours of them.

Regards, David

PS Polishing the brass and leaving the name in black was once fashionable for other items...

 

[Dralowid]

The shutter release, vulcanite and knurling on the knobs point towards it being a later camera. IE, odds on it has an Elmar. Don't get seduced by its age, they made nearly 60,000 of them in various forms.

 

[CameraQuest]

Hello everyone,

This is my first time posting so I hope no one minds my first post being a question. But I am going to estate sale and the guy has quite a few Leica items which is very nice because I think he is pricing them very reasonably. But he has one pre-iii item (a model A) and I am trying to make sure that I go in there prepared to know if it is a fake or not. I feel pretty prepared with how to tell interchangeable lens models (roller cam follower, strap studs etc) but I am clueless on how to spot a model A fake. I don't have a serial on it and all I have is this terrible photo he took, but any tips (or a link) would be very appreciated.

Oh and just to reiterate, am not ask for value, I am wanting to know how to tell if it is a fake or not. I know that even fakes can have value, but I am not interested in those, just legit Leica. And on this one, the lens cap being all brassy like that just seems fishy. But I am not even sure if there even were any fake model A's. Even just know that would help.

Thanks a bunch for any help.

Only very expensive Leicas are faked by professionals. IF you ever see one, it will be far too well done for you or the average Leica dealer or collector to recognize it as a fake. If you find an over $1000 faked A with Elmax or super early number, it will look and seem real.

Most Leica A fakes are badly done Russian conversions which are very obvious if you have even the most basic Leica A knowledge. Realworld, don't worry about buying a fake Leica A.

The pic looks genuine. Buy it.

Stephen