I don't understand Leica people

So everybody is talking about collectors. But what about Leica people?

Our friend doesn't understand them. They're all the same, you know ;)
 
Try buying Nikon

Try buying Nikon

Somebody starts a thread about how god a lens is, and the 'bay starts a new BIN.
 
rxmd said:
I don't understand Leica people
Philipp
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What a coincidence...we just had a meeting, all us Leica People, and we decided that we don't understand you! Wow, huh......

Bob
 
It is not that I don't understand leica people, it is that I do not understand leica snobs. In my estimation, leica snobs are as insufferable as Mac snobs (including several of my extended family). The snobs like to pretend that they are superior to the folks that do not subscribe to the religion. I am not into faith-based photography or computing.

Use whatever works for you personally, but don't be snarky about it.
 
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dexdog said:
It is not that I don't understand leica people, it is that I do not understand leica snobs. In my estimation, leica snobs are as insufferable as Mac snobs (including several of my extended family). The snobs like to pretend that they are superior to the folks that do not subscribe to the religion. I am not into faith-based photography or computing.

Use whatever works for you personally, but don't be snarky about it.
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Any Leica is better than ANYTHING else!
Any Leica is better than ANYTHING else!
Any Leica is better than ANYTHING else!
Any Leica is better than ANYTHING else!
Any Leica is better than ANYTHING else!
Any Leica is better than ANYTHING else!

Even the M8 sucks better than any other sucky camera made before or after!

:p
 
Not all special editions are silly. Bought from teh right dealer the Mp3 LHSA kit is considerably cheaper than seperate std MP components.

I dont understand collecting either, whether it be stamps or anything else. However if looking at a dummy m5 gives someone the same pleasure I get from a great framed print (with no utilitarian value either) then who am I to complain?

I could not care less what collectors get up to....whatever flicks their switch!!! If Leica goes bust I hope they go nuts and drive the value of my gear up. They dont generally drive up the prices of useful kit as with the current range of Leica, Zeiss and CV lenses anyone interested in pictures has more to chose from than they could ever desire. I doubt there is really anything collectors are forcing the prices up of that a real photographer actually has to have..... so I just dont care!
 
I guess I could dig up a couple of $50 empty Coke cans from Turkmenistan and $400 iPod dummies to sell to these people. The fact that some people actually pay ridiculous prices doesn't make them less ridiculous, does it?
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I don't know about that. How do you value something like that anyway, it's all relative after all. I mean, while that amount for a collectable item may seem ludicrous to you, most of the world would consider buying a Leica to be absurd when you consider its monetary value vs. usefulness. Owning a Leica for any reason, regardless if it is to use or just to display, is such an exercise in decadence compared with how 99% of the world lives that it's senseless to make judgement calls on collectors versus shooters.

The allure of a Leica reflects more than its usefulness or ruggedness. Most people here appreciate their cameras on a level that transcends their utilitarian value. Leica banks on that. Rather than ruining it for the rest of us, the high prices collectors routinely pay HELPS us by keeping Leica in the black (I sure as hell am not doing it) and ensuring that the value of our secondhand kit stays high.

Ultimately most goods we trade are just tulip bulbs. They are worth what someone will pay for them, that's it.
 
I think a lot of the time those complaining about 'overinflated' priced used 'legend' lenses etc are chasing the same snake oil as the wealthier collectors/bluffers they cannot keep up with so they deserve one another! (Oh, I would not dream of using anything other than a 35mm Summicrutch. The bokeh is incredible and the glow makes me cu*. modern lenses are hideous and ruin my art darling). Whatever makes them......
 
Collecting and the need to possess complete collections is almost a psychological type in itself and could have been added as a supplementary Chapter to Jung's Psychological Types.
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Therefore, the answer to my father's statement when he sees me with a new camera, "What are you nuts?"

Is a definitive juvenile,

"YES!"

:)
 
People collecting cameras to use them seems healthy enough.

People collecting cameras to display is odd.

People collecting cameras in sealed boxes is way off the scale. I think they have the box xrayed to check that there's a camera inside.
 
My only bugbear with collectors is that they bump up the prices of cameras which limits who can buy them. This means many young photographers would be put off from experimenting with rangefinders, and so limits the new blood entering the RF scene, this in particular is a bad thing.
 
Humans are very good at ascribing arbitrary values to useless things. Really, you could take out the dummy camera from your post and insert "mint condition Scooby Doo lunchbox" or "Vida Blue rookie card" or "Griswold cast iron pan" or "shiny purple sea shell" and it would be as common and make no sense from the standpoint of utility. But since this delusion is universal, why worry about it?
 
the M5+ summilux at 900 euros seems untrue to me, or the M5 and or the lens was mechanically wrong somewhere...
 
People will collect anything. Some deluded people will try to imbue any old item with a rarity it doesn't possess and, depressingly often, find someone to agree with them and cough up the spondoolicks accordingly.
I shake my head in horror when I walk around the Denmark St. guitar shops and see the price tags on battered 1970's guitars and amplifiers that I wouldn't have bought when new. Rare and valuable is often solely in the mind of the seller.
 
dexdog said:
It is not that I don't understand leica people, it is that I do not understand leica snobs. In my estimation, leica snobs are as insufferable as Mac snobs (including several of my extended family).


I guess I am in trouble. I like Macs and Leicas. But at least I use them, not collect them!
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As a collector & user, I think that's a bit of strawman & doesn't really happen that often. As far as "pro" quality, system, RF cameras are concerned, they've always been relatively expensive, even back in the 1920s & '30s when nobody really collected them. Indeed, once you've taken inflation & average wages, etc., into account, new & used Leicas (or Contaxes, or Canon RFs, or even most Nikon RFs) are more affordable today than they were back in the old days. A good example I would use is the Bell & Howell Foton. It's a fairly rare "collector" camera system, but you can get a working example, w/2" lens, etc., today for about the same nominal price that it retailed for back in 1948, $700 US.

IMHO, what's changed is that because of modern production methods & electronics, there is so much more good quality inexpensive gear available nowadays in the form of autofocus SLRs, point & shoots (which are much capable than their Box Brownie equivalents 50 years ago), & the like, that Leicas seem overpriced in comparison.

Toby said:
My only bugbear with collectors is that they bump up the prices of cameras which limits who can buy them. This means many young photographers would be put off from experimenting with rangefinders, and so limits the new blood entering the RF scene, this in particular is a bad thing.
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My only bugbear with collectors is that they bump up the prices of cameras which limits who can buy them. This means many young photographers would be put off from experimenting with rangefinders, and so limits the new blood entering the RF scene, this in particular is a bad thing.
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True. Leica made a deal with the devil catering to the collector's market, IMO. For every photographer who marvels at the quality of their lenses, there are ten more laughing at the "Sultan of Brunei" special edition platinum M6. :bang:
 
I've got mixed feelings about Leica collectors. On the one hand, they push prices up and out of the reach of many wannabe users. But on the other hand, increasing the demand and keeping prices for old gear high surely helps to keep the demand and prices for new gear high too, and that helps keep Leica in business (which is a very good thing).

And the only thing I don't like about Leica users is that I'm not one of them ;)
 
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