I Need some Kiev RF Shutter timing notes

[myequation]

I love Kievs (and this forum) but have never mastered repairing one. I've repaired many Rolliecords and other nice cameras but the Kiev shutter is a mystery.

I'm familiar with the body break down thanks to the "kiev survival site"

But I can find no notes on actually adjusting or fixing shutter timing.
also what are the spots to grease or oil?
And thats the whole point of me opening these cameras.

Can someone help.

 

[rolleistef]

ZorkiKat may be your man, he's just made a thread about the Kiev he's restored.

 

[ZorkiKat]

I D K if this will help-

Once the works are clean, oil the pivots. Everything that you see where a gear, lever, or arm is pinned or orbits on should be given a spot of oil. Some of the later made Kiev with grittier parts / gears can benefit from a bit of excess oil on the gear teeth themselves.

I've read of two large screws in the timing mechanism which can alter the speeds or the retarding action of the mechanism. But it's best not to touch these. Adjusting one may lead to a whole range of new timing issues. It's safe to assume that whoever made them probably put them correctly, or at least good enough for acceptable function.

I hope that you did not attempt to remove the upper curtain assembly. Putting it back is one of the most difficult things to do. I've done this thrice, and each time really took long to get the gears to synch right. One instance took three days to get the curtain reel to mesh right. The position of the upper curtain relative to the other gears is very important- miss it by one curtain slat or as little as a couple of gear teeth, the shutter timing at the faster speeds go bad.

I think, for the most part, you can get acceptable timing through tensioning. If you have the original, thicker Arsenal ribbons, 8-10 full turns on the tensioning screw should do it right. If you're using a lighter , thinner replacement material, 6-8 turns seem to be enough.

I've used the TV screen method. The camera is held lens-less, back cover off, facing a CRT or TV screen. With the Kiev, speed settings from 1/100 to 1/1250 (or 1/1000), I think, can be tested using this method. The Kiev runs at the same speed at these settings (the timing gears are disengaged) and rely on the slit size to alter exposure times. Because the shutter runs vertically, the camera should be held in vertical shooting position to observe the diagonal slat when the shutter runs.

If slit sizes appear to be 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, and 1/16 the frame gate's width at the 100, 250, 500, and 1250 settings respectively, the shutter should be exposing with in acceptable values.

This is the only testing method I've used, and I am getting correctly exposed pictures so far. Others may have a better way of testing the shutter timing.

 

[myequation]

perfect answer thank you. this is what i have been doing but was wondering if I was missing something. Good to know about the top curtain I will not touch that mess.

Soon I hope to replace shutter ribbon for the first time, but I'm still waiting on supplies from japan.

we will see how that goes.

 

[acheyj]

I D K if this will help-

Once the works are clean, oil the pivots. Everything that you see where a gear, lever, or arm is pinned or orbits on should be given a spot of oil. Some of the later made Kiev with grittier parts / gears can benefit from a bit of excess oil on the gear teeth themselves.

I've read of two large screws in the timing mechanism which can alter the speeds or the retarding action of the mechanism. But it's best not to touch these. Adjusting one may lead to a whole range of new timing issues. It's safe to assume that whoever made them probably put them correctly, or at least good enough for acceptable function.

I hope that you did not attempt to remove the upper curtain assembly. Putting it back is one of the most difficult things to do. I've done this thrice, and each time really took long to get the gears to synch right. One instance took three days to get the curtain reel to mesh right. The position of the upper curtain relative to the other gears is very important- miss it by one curtain slat or as little as a couple of gear teeth, the shutter timing at the faster speeds go bad.

I think, for the most part, you can get acceptable timing through tensioning. If you have the original, thicker Arsenal ribbons, 8-10 full turns on the tensioning screw should do it right. If you're using a lighter , thinner replacement material, 6-8 turns seem to be enough.

I've used the TV screen method. The camera is held lens-less, back cover off, facing a CRT or TV screen. With the Kiev, speed settings from 1/100 to 1/1250 (or 1/1000), I think, can be tested using this method. The Kiev runs at the same speed at these settings (the timing gears are disengaged) and rely on the slit size to alter exposure times. Because the shutter runs vertically, the camera should be held in vertical shooting position to observe the diagonal slat when the shutter runs.

If slit sizes appear to be 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, and 1/16 the frame gate's width at the 100, 250, 500, and 1250 settings respectively, the shutter should be exposing with in acceptable values.

This is the only testing method I've used, and I am getting correctly exposed pictures so far. Others may have a better way of testing the shutter timing.

Thank You ZorkiKat, agree with all you say re lube, have now done 3 Kievs with good results.
My problem is the upper courtain gear mesh, I asked the question before maybe not explained myself well.
In terms of number of slats gap, at the highest speed what do you recomend the mesh/ number of gaps or gap in mm should be ?.
I tried to get info on this in terms of distance gap in mm but after your post now see maybe better to think in terms of slats !
ANY advice in this area would be most helpful, I have two shutters out of mesh one is totally dis-assembled, as you say not a quick exercise.

ron

 

[mooge]

yeah...

ALL gears connected to the shutter, even those near the wind knob need light oil.

if your slow speeds are s-l-o-w (actually, you should do this anyways) pull out the circular baffle thingy near where the lens mount was, remove the other baffle under it (three screws, one silver by the base, two up top) and get to the slow speeds and big timing gear. wait, you probably know all that.

anyhoo, wash everything out with lighter fluid, then use the oil. then re-tension as necessary.

I never was able to pull the top curtain- couldn't figure it out, and besides, there was no point to doing so. but I did mess with the Big Timing Gear- if you play with the two screws on the inside too much, you may ruin the threads or whatever I ended up doing. they never come out too, if you wanna pull that gear, you gotta do it from the outside of the shutter crate.

good luck!

 

[myequation]

all very helpful.
This is all what I assumed but wasn't certain.

 

[oftheherd]

Thanks for those answers. Great stuff I hope never to need, but great if I do.