leicashot
Well-known
Love the irony of people that are so against my feelings towards the new M and it's new easy to use focusing features. This forum used to be a niche crowd, proud to be using niche products....
I think see a fork in the road - a rant
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rxmd
May contain traces of nut
Well for me it's one thing to use niche products because they're good, or because they get the job done like nothing else. And it's another thing to use them because they make me feel special, or because they're too difficult for Joe Sixpack to use. Somehow I can sympathise more with the former (and having read you for a while I suppose you actually do too).
sig
Well-known
The forum here is more a Leica crowd than a niche crowd.
Good/needed functionallity - whatever the current M can do.
Bad/unneeded func - whatever the current M can not do.
Good/needed functionallity - whatever the current M can do.
Bad/unneeded func - whatever the current M can not do.
rxmd
May contain traces of nut
I rather suspect:
Good/needed functionallity - whatever the M3 can do.
Bad/unneeded func - whatever the M3 can not do.
And to follow up on that, in the digital age everybody interprets that differently, which leads to another lot of extra arguments about what constitutes a "true" digital M.
BobYIL
Well-known
Folks! The engineers at Solms are noting these carefully.. they began to figure out where the virtues to master photography lie "The harder to master, the prouder will feel the users." BTW, the next M may come out with an add-on finder and attachment type rangefinder.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
I have a Leica 1a with one of those shoe mounted rangefinder thingys ... though I never use it. What were they thinking when they added this unnecessary luxury ... what the hell was wrong with scale focusing? 😀
On a more serious note I don't really see that the M has changed that much to be honest. If I want to use live view focusing I have to pony up for the shoe mounted EVF which will obviously cost a gazillion dollars or hold the camera at arms length and look like a total tool.
The EVF and live view function are basically the modern day equivalent of the old Visoflex which dates back to the middle of last century. It's not like Leica haven't offered options to ba$tardise the simple M before. 🙄
leicashot
Well-known
I'm talking about having a camera that feels simple in form and use, not about prestige. Seems all people want, including on this forum is a Nikon or Canon. Why even bother with Leica then? There's no point even using a rangefinder when there are cheaper M4/3 alternatives that already do what the M does.
I used to think members here enjoyed rangefinder photography, but it's no longer about that at all. OK I'm not going to get anywhere with this argument so I'm out....and yes of course I'll be getting the new M ;-)
I used to think members here enjoyed rangefinder photography, but it's no longer about that at all. OK I'm not going to get anywhere with this argument so I'm out....and yes of course I'll be getting the new M ;-)
rxmd
May contain traces of nut
And I feel that live view makes the M camera even simpler to use and more flexible, which is good - but earlier you essentially stated that you were disappointed because it was now too easy and required less skill to use, and this left me a bit confused.
I enjoy rangefinder photography, but I'm not emotionally attached to the rangefinder focusing mechanism, and being able to focus with a split image has nothing to do with my self-esteem as a photographer - is there a contradiction here?
myM8yogi
Well-known
Very often I use my M9 like a film camera right until I enter the darkroom.
Turtle
Veteran
I don't feel any of the alternatives come anywhere close to replacing a Leica M. Just how many manual focus DRFs are there made by other companies?
So you use Leica Ms because they are difficult to master niche products, whilst recognising that other much cheaper cameras offer you exactly the same utility? Fair enough, but it does seem odd to me. I don;t own any of the other cameras precisely because they do not do what a Leica RF does for me (a personal thing of course).
RFF is surely about people who like using RF cameras. The new Leica M remains a CRF camera does it not? It still offers every single one of the benefits of a CRF that goes back to the very origins of Leica?
I can't understand the exclusivity thing going on here that seems detached from utility. This forum is often about gear, but with a keen eye on photographic output. You seem to be wanting to sever that linkage.
I use Leicas and consider myself a 'very serious user' of said cameras, but that decision is about what they do for me in isolation, not what they do or do not do for other people.
So you use Leica Ms because they are difficult to master niche products, whilst recognising that other much cheaper cameras offer you exactly the same utility? Fair enough, but it does seem odd to me. I don;t own any of the other cameras precisely because they do not do what a Leica RF does for me (a personal thing of course).
RFF is surely about people who like using RF cameras. The new Leica M remains a CRF camera does it not? It still offers every single one of the benefits of a CRF that goes back to the very origins of Leica?
I can't understand the exclusivity thing going on here that seems detached from utility. This forum is often about gear, but with a keen eye on photographic output. You seem to be wanting to sever that linkage.
I use Leicas and consider myself a 'very serious user' of said cameras, but that decision is about what they do for me in isolation, not what they do or do not do for other people.
sepiareverb
genius and moron
I don't think you're alone in this.
froyd
Veteran
I agree that the forum has changes a lot lately. It seems that at one point there were big debates about whether having coupled framelines and metering made the M6 inferior to the M2. Not it seems that if metering, histograms, horizon lines are not viewable in the VF, that's a bad thing.
Having said that I think RF appeal because they are easy to use. I find them the easiest shooting cameras that I own. Meter once, look around, see picture opportunity, frame and shoot. Repeat when light changes. Focusing is a breeze too compared to my slr and my TLR (the TLR is easy, but slower than the RF). I don't think that many people choose RF to have a harder to use camera.
semilog
curmudgeonly optimist
Turtle and rxmd are making a lot of sense.
Mcary
Well-known
+ 100
Just me personally but I found the Leica M to be about the easiest camera to learn. Sure I had to watch a few youtube videos on loading the film and focusing but after that everything just seemed to come so natural. Kept thinking to myself why the hell did you wait so long to get on of these 🙂
Paul Luscher
Well-known
Well, since I shoot both film and digital, I don't see why we all can't get along.
sepiareverb
genius and moron
I shoot both film and digital too and I am constantly fighting with myself.
Mcary
Well-known
Agree
A few rules when a topic gets a little too intense.
Rule #1 We're all photographers here.
Rule #2 See rule #1
Godfrey
somewhat colored
Huh? I always liked Leica Ms because they were darn easy to use, you didn't have to learn how to evaluate a projected image for sharpness or learn a complex automation system. All you had to do was match up the images in the viewfinder and set an exposure. How much easier than that can it get?
The new M adds some more complexity into the effort, a few more decisions to make, but the additions add versatility.
Chris101
summicronia
Folks! The engineers at Solms are noting these carefully.. they began to figure out where the virtues to master photography lie "The harder to master, the prouder will feel the users." BTW, the next M may come out with an add-on finder and attachment type rangefinder.
I wonder how many mm thick such a camera will be ... 🙄
Nescio
Well-known
"the road to the western lands is devious, unpredictable.
today's easy passage may be tomorrow's death trap. the
obvious road is almost always a fool's road, and beware
the middle roads, the roads of moderation, common sense
and careful planning. however, there is a time for
planning, moderation and common sense."
Just could'nt resist:angel: